Darby and the Rapture

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by FundamentalOnly!, Nov 2, 2006.

  1. FundamentalOnly!

    FundamentalOnly!
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    I cant find much info about the Rapture past John Darby, so I was wondering what everyone thought about him and him being the father of Rapture Theology?

    Was there much Rapture theology with in the Great Awakening? What about the early church. thanks for the help.
     
  2. preachinjesus

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    I'd be interested to see texts supporting a rapture view being held prior to Darby. You'll probably find more texts speaking of a historical premill positions (that is a premillenial return of Christ with no rapture) than a rapture.

    Interesting that in the early church many major theologians held an amillenialist view. Augustine sure did.

    Jean Calvin, and thus Jonathan Edwards, held a more historical premill position in line with their Covenant/Federal Theology.
     
  3. Martin

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    ==I don't know that I agree with the above statement. From my readings from the period it seems that most in the "early" church did believe in a pre-millennial eschatology. I will have to look it up since it is has been several years since I have visited this issue. However I would want to put more focus on Scripture than Augustine, Darby, LaHaye, or Walvoord. I think the pre-millennial position finds strong support in both the Old and New Testaments. The pre-tribulation rapture is a bit more difficult. However I still believe that, Scripturally speaking, it does have support. However I have a policy that I, no longer, argue over the rapture. It will happen when it happens and, since Scripture offers no direct teaching on it, I am not going to divide over it. I am certain that true Christians can disagree on the rapture issue.
     
  4. Tom Butler

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  5. av1611jim

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    I went to the link.
    They make a big deal about "no organized church' blah blah blah.
    Do they not realize that "organized" churches did not exist prior to the reformation, most generally understood as being the time of and after Wycliffe? Mostly because Rome was busy burning any who tried to organize apart from her hateful idolatry.
    My contention is this. There probably isn't any "church" writings during the Dark ages for two reasons. First, Rome was very good at suppressing dissenting views to her idolatry, including book burning. But more importantly, I believe those folks were (a). content with preaching Scripture alone, and (b). did not bother writing treatises on theology or eschatology since they were too busy fleeing from Rome and preaching the Gospel.

    The preterist view spirituallizes where it ought not and literalizes when it is convienient for them..

    Preterism is baloney. Thanks for the link. BTW; Thanks for saying it is ONE view of it. At least you're not as dogmatic as some I have seen here.

    I hope to see you some time, either "here", "there" or "in the air"!
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    Define what is mean by the 'rapture' in which you do not believe.

    Thank you.


    1 Thessalonians 4:17 (The Latin Vulgate, 6th Century /501-600/
    deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur
    cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper
    cum Domino erimus

    1 Thessalonians 4:17 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Then we which are aliue, and remaine, shalbe caught vp together
    with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the aire: and so shall wee euer
    bee with the Lord.

    Yes 'rapture' is in the Bible. The Latin Vulgate was the
    Bible for some 1100 years (compare to the KJV which
    has only been around less than 400 years).
     
    #6 Ed Edwards, Nov 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2006
  7. Tom Butler

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    AV1611jim,

    I have a dear brother-in-law who is staunchly pre-trib. He's fond of saying to me, "when the rapture comes,you're going whether you believe it or not. I'm going to grab your hand, and if you still don't believe it, I'm going to let go."!

    I'm not pre-trib, but I surely hope he's right and I'm wrong.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    Fundamental Only! //I cant find much info
    about the Rapture past John Darby, ... //

    Searching Google this morning I find

    10,200 pages with //Rapture "John Darby"//

    11,300,000 pages with //Rapture// only

    So I suggest there are over 1,000
    times as references to //Rapture "John Darby"//
    than to //Rapture// only. So I hope you can understand
    that I find your testimony lacking validity.
    Maybe you didn't look very hard or perchance didn't
    look in any meaningful place?
     
  9. av1611jim

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    Just because google has millions of references to /rapture/ doesn't really mean a hill of beans since the word /rapture/ isn't necessarily a strictly Bible term, ya'know.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    FundamentalOnly! // ... so I was wondering what everyone thought
    about him and him being the father of Rapture Theology? //

    Consider this article on John Nelson Darby:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby

    Here is a quote from that Wikipedia entry:

    //Darby is noted in the theological world as the father of
    "dispensationalism," later made popular in the United States
    by Cyrus Scofield's Scofield Reference Bible.
    He originated the "secret rapture" theory wherein
    Christ will snatch away his true believers from this world without warning//

    For those who find that source not Fundamental enough,
    consider this from the John Nelson Darby entry in:
    DICTIONARY OF PREMILLENNIAL THEOLOGY
    (Kregel, 1996) Editied by Mal Couch, page 82:

    //Early leader among the Plymouth Brethren
    and developer of dispensational premillennialism,
    John Darby (1800-1882) invested his life in stregthening
    the saints as they gathered simply "to His name" and
    awaited their Lord's any-moment return.//

    Then, my question is:
    What is this 'Rapture Theology' of which John Nelson
    Darby is the father?
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you Brother, a slight oversite on my part.

    Here is my recalculated statement:

    Searching Google this morning I find

    10,200 pages with //Rapture "John Darby"//

    [SIZE=-1]182,000[/SIZE] pages with //"John Darby" OR "John Nelson Darby"//

    Searching within those results for //rapture//
    [SIZE=-1]i find 29,800 pages.

    So there are six times as many pages with John Darby's
    name on it that DO NOT contain the word 'rapture'
    as there are that DO contain the word rapture.

    [/SIZE]So I hope you can understand
    that I find your testimony lacking a lot of validity.
    Maybe you didn't look very hard or perchance didn't
    look in real meaningful place?

    Can we discuss John Darby, father of dispensational
    premillinnialism? (not to be confused with the
    classical premillinnial theology).
     
  12. LadyEagle

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