Darby = Dispensationalism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, May 11, 2015.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I think there needs to be a separate forum for eschatology.

    Why can't dispensationaists acknowledge that John Nelson Darby was the founder of their end-times schema?

    To admit it does not mean that you have ever read any of his works.

    But to admit it would mean that "the system" came late in Church History.

    There are many flavors in the dispensational camp --just about anyone would acknowledge that. But all dispensational teachers have built upon the foundation that J.N.D. developed. Men like Lewis S.Chafer, Charles L. Feinberg, A.C. Gaebelein, Dwight Pentecost, Charles C. Ryrie and John F. Walvoord have Darby to thank. Needless to say ole' Cyrus built upon his system.

    I will give some quotes from Understanding Dispensationalists by Vern S. Poythres.

    "John N. Darby, the first proponent of the most salient distinctives of dispensationalism...Thus Darby is important, not merely as a founder of dispensationalism, but as a representative of some of the elements that continue to be strong concerns of dispensationalism to this day." (p.14)

    "Cyrus I. Scofield (1843-1921) was indebted to James Brooks and Brethren writings for many of the views that he held in common with John Darby." (p.20)

    "For both John Nelson Darby and C.I. Scofield, the interpretation of law and prophecy --virtually the whole Old Testament --had a key role in the dispensational system." (p.30)
     
  2. OldRegular

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    And I have quoted extensively from dispensational scholar Dr. Thomas Ice regarding Darby's role in pre-trib-dispensationalism yet most on this BB refuse to acknowledge that Darby is indeed the father of pre-trib-dispensationalism. It is this same mindset that causes many to deny that they ever heard the term "parenthesis" Church until blessedwife318 and HankD spoke up!
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    Who are these many?
     
  4. McCree79

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    Agree about the forum....

    I don't see why they won't admit Darby formed the theology behind Pre-trib. I was raised pre-trib. Scofield and Darby were common names used.

    I'm guessing they deny Darby, so we can't attack the man. Much like others do Calvin. When they can't beat his understanding of scripture, they attack the man.

    FYI....I don't hold Pre-trib anymore. Its a slow process to change your mind set on eschatology. If you have a pre- trib mindset, Revelation makes sense in a pre-trib way...even parts of Daniel. It was the rest of the Bible I couldn't fit into a Pre-trib view...example Matt 24
     
  5. Darrell C

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    I agree.


    Why can't Trinitarians admit that Catholicism was the founder of their Theology?


    God bless.
     
  6. beameup

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    Was this Darby a contemporary of Paul? I don't recall hearing of him.

    If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;
    Eph 3:2-3
     
  7. Darrell C

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    And all this time I thought it was the Lord that gave Paul the revelation he revealed.

    Didn't Darby race horses or something?


    God bless.
     
  8. revmwc

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    sorry picked up the wrong thread!
     
    #8 revmwc, May 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2015
  9. revmwc

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    Were the people you reference contemporaries of Paul or John? Or how about those of the early church who believed in the pre-trib return of Christ wait Polycarp was a student of John and He taught Iraneaus who believed in a literal return of Christ for believers before the Tribulation. So how is that Darby is supposedly the one who started the pre-trib dispensationalism. Paul himself said this,
    Ephesians 3:2-6,
    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:'

    Seems Paul taught dispensations and the church as a mystery not revealed to the O.T. prophets. So did Paul learn about the dispensation of Grace from Darby or did the teaching exist all the way back to Paul? Was the mystery of the dispensation of the grace of God given to Darby or Paul?

    Paul says it was given to him! I think I'll acknowledge Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as the one who first taught dispensationalism.
     
  10. OldRegular

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    Show how the passage you quote has anything at all to do with Darby's doctrine of the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church!


    The word dispensation does not appear in the Old Testament so that means there were no dispensations in the Old Testament by your reasoning. Furthermore, the word dispensation appears only four times in the New Testament all in the writings of Paul. Does this mean there are four dispensations in the New Testament since there are none in the Old Testament, according to your flawed reasoning!

    Truth is that nothing Paul says, and nothing the Bible records, supports in any way John Nelson Darby's doctrine of the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church! You Rapture Ready folks read whatever is necessary into Scripture to support the Darby doctrine.

    If my recollection is correct rm you never heard of the "parenthesis" Church until blessedwife318 and HankD told the truth of the matter. then you admit to the "parenthesis" Church as a valley hidden by mountains.:laugh:-:laugh:-:laugh:-:laugh:
    {http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99574}
     
  11. OldRegular

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    Then why don't YOU admit it instead of sliming the Roman Catholics, assuming of course, that you believe in the Trinity! Do You?
     
  12. Darrell C

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    This...


    Hebrews 3

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

    3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

    4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

    5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

    6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.



    ...refers to an Old Testament dispensation.

    The word Church does not appear in the Old Testament either, so based on your reasoning we can say without question the Church did not exist in the Old Testament.

    Right?


    God bless.
     
  13. OldRegular

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    All those who have responded to my posts regarding the "parenthesis" Church invented by certain Darby pre-trib-dispensationalists except blessedwife318 and HankD!

    You might check the thread {http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=80260} to see the vitriol expressed at the mention of the "parenthesis" Church!
     
  14. Darrell C

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    When have I slimed Catholics, lol.

    I love Catholics.

    They are a lot of fun to debate, usually, though some, like you, refuse to actually engage in conversation.


    Of course I do. Unlike you, I can comprehend Biblical concepts and teachings without having to see a specific word or phrase that meets my personal criteria that has to be met before I believe the Word of God.

    But I agree with the OP: Eschatology should have it's own Board, so that Theological Discussion is not over-run by those that cannot escape the bondage they are in on one subject.


    God bless.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    No it doesn't. There was a Mosaic Covenant but Mosaic dispensation, NO!


    Your pre-trib-dispensational prophetScofield disagrees with you:

     
  16. OldRegular

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    You comprehend nothing taught in Scripture. All you know is something you have heard from a Rapture Ready preacher or from reading a bit by a Rapture Ready author! Darby's pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church-dispensationalism is the brain-child of John Nelson Darby which he dreamed up, claiming new revelation, from Isaiah 32 while recuperating from a riding accident! Therefore, Darby's pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church-dispensationalism is a schooled doctrine. It does not come from reading the Bible but must be taught by someone who has also been "schooled"!

    God deals with people by HIS Grace and through Covenants. That is the truth taught in the Bible. Darby's pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church-dispensationalism was developed in the same manner as Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and Seventh Day Adventists, the claim of new revelation or new understanding previously hidden from the Church.
     
  17. DHK

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    But Hank didn't necessarily agree with you:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2220171&postcount=126
     
  18. revmwc

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    So you believe Darby taught the Apostle Paul about dispensations? And that Darby must have taught it to those of the early church who believed in the pre-trib return of Christ like Polycarp who was a student of John and He taught Iraneaus who believed in a literal return of Christ for believers before the Tribulation. So you also believe that Darby taught it John? So how is that Darby is supposedly the one who started the pre-trib dispensationalism, when Paul himself said this,
    Ephesians 3:2-6,
    2 "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:'

    Seems Paul taught dispensations and the church as a mystery not revealed to the O.T. prophets. So did Paul learn about the dispensation of Grace (which by almost every dispensational teacher is the current dispensation) from Darby or did the teaching exist all the way back to Paul? Was the mystery of the dispensation of the grace of God given to Darby or Paul?

    Paul says it was given to him! I think I'll acknowledge Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as the one who first taught dispensationalism.
     
  19. OldRegular

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  20. OldRegular

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    Nothing in the writings of Paul, nothing in Scripture, supports the Darbyite Pre-Trib-dispensational-"snatching away" of the Church.

    Nothing in the writings of Paul, nothing in Scripture, supports the Pre-Trib-dispensational-doctrine of a "parenthesis" Church!

    The Darbyite Pre-Trib-dispensational-doctrine is false doctrine. It was developed in the same manner of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventism by claiming new revelation or new understanding hidden from the Church for 1800 years.
     

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