Dark Ages RCC list of Forbidden books

BobRyan · Oct 5, 2003

Here is the list of forbidden books mentioned in the Vatican news articles on this thread so far.

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/ILP-1559.htm

Notice that not only are specific Bible banned but "all similar Bibles" are banned AS are all books published by a given publisher that dares to publish any of those bibles etc.

This practice of extreme draconian censorship - even to the point of burning/banning Bibles and all who print them - was the subject of the Vatican's 2000 committee.

There is no doubt that enlightened Christians today would condemn such atrocities if they were being "introduced" today.

But what do Christians say about these atrocities of the dark ages?

In Christ,

Bob

Ray Berrian · Oct 5, 2003

Bob Ryan,

Ryan expressed this idea. 'Vatican's 2000 committee. . . ' Does anyone have any data on this committee? One would guess that they kept tight raps on this tool of the Vatican. They are not at all like the Baptists who on this board, say, upfront, "The Truth Shall Set You Free." The Bible says, 'Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.' [II Cor. 3:17] This is true faith.

The imprimatur governed and administered by the Catholic Church is a powerful weapon on keeping the people of God hoodwinked and only filling their minds with Catholic perspectives with their add-on theology. Am I wrong is saying that the Catholic Church is a control centered institution? I don't think so . . .

BobRyan · Oct 5, 2003

While there was a lot of fanfare going into that study group - I have not heard of a big pronouncement coming out of it.

Perhaps there are some RC members on this board who are not themselves so tied to the practices of the RCC in the dark ages - that they would be bold enough to look into the actions of their own church around the year 2000, who would have a spirit in full agreement with the Pope and leading RC theologians listed in those news reports and would be interested in a consisten Christian review of that material coming out into the public.

In Christ,

Bob

GraceSaves · Oct 6, 2003

Book burning was a common practice of the time. You cannot apply modern standards to times when those standards, fortune or unfortunate, were not in effect.

BobRyan · Oct 6, 2003

AS the Vatican news article pointed out - the practices of torture, forced conversions - and yes the forbidden book list - were all done at the behest of Catholic leadership. Her minions were simply following orders.

This was NOT the practice of the first century NT church - rather the RCC "developed it".

In Christ,

Bob

Carson Weber · Oct 6, 2003

This was NOT the practice of the first century NT church - rather the RCC "developed it".

These practices mentioned were political measures designed to protect the common good of society; they were not distinctively "Catholic". At that time, all political authorities carried out these common punitive measures to ensure the common good. But, for an Anti-Catholic Seventh Day Adventist with closed ears, shut eyes, and a vehement hatred for the straw man he has constructed to be "The Catholic Church", none of this matters. Only the SDA propaganda matters. Period.

BobRyan · Oct 6, 2003

Your own Vatican reports that your own Pope denies your statement above ALONG with the blue ribbon study panel HE setup on the subject for the year 2000.

It is THAT report that slams the practice listed above and ALSO that slams the shallow attempts to obfuscate the Catholic church's role in this in the dark ages.

Read it for yourself rather than "pretending" that if you shoot the messenger history will change. (Another favorite tactic of the dark ages).

In Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Oct 6, 2003

Since Carson appears to be opposing the Pope on this one - here is the place where I found recently that a supposedly Christian church instituted the "forbidden book list" for all of Europe over a period of centures.

That a supposedly Christian church keeps "secret files" in its atrocities during the dark ages.

(That Catholics today who DO NOT have access to those secret files claim non-Catholic accounts of RC atrocities in the dark ages are too high).

Originally posted by BobRyan:
With such well documented examples of the RC policy of "extermination" in its "dark ages" how can "informed Catholics" continue to pursue a practice of "denial and equivocaition" as "if" there ever existed an equivalent Christian denomination holding such absolute control over all of Europe for centuries - that also pursued such an explicit and blatant policy of "extermination".

The "answer" seems to be that there are credible Catholics who maintain integrity by admitting to the obvious history of the past and deal with the issue head-on instaed of dodging it. (Or at least we find evidence that there are).

Consider the following news stories from Vatican City.

-------------------------------------

Vatican Hosts Inquisition Symposium

By CANDICE HUGHES

.c The Associated Press

VATICAN CITY (AP) – The Vatican assembled a blue-ribbon panel of scholars Thursday to examine the Inquisition and declared its readiness to submit the church's darkest institution to the judgment of history.

The three-day symposium is part of the Roman Catholic Church's countdown to 2000. Pope John Paul II wants the church to begin the new millennium with a clear conscience, which means facing up to past sins.

For many people, the Inquisition is one of the church's worst transgressions. For centuries, ecclesiastical ``thought police'' tried, tortured and burned people at the stake for heresy and other crimes.

``The church cannot cross the threshold of the new millennium without pressing its children to purify themselves in repentance for their errors, infidelity, incoherence,'' Cardinal Roger Etchegaray said, opening the conference.

The inquisitors went after Protestants, Jews, Muslims and presumed heretics. They persecuted scientists like Galileo. They banned the Bible in anything but Latin, which few ordinary people could read.

The Inquisition began in the 13th century and lasted into the 19th. An index of banned books endured even longer, until 1966. And it was 1992 before the church rehabilitated Galileo, condemned for saying the Earth wasn't the center of the universe.

The symposium, which gathers experts from inside and outside the church, is the Vatican's first critical look at the church's record of repression.

Among other things, it will give scholars a chance to compare notes on what they've found in the secret Vatican archives on the Inquisition, which the Holy See only recently opened.

``The church is not afraid to submit its past to the judgment of history,'' said Etchegaray, a Frenchman who leads the Vatican's Commission on the Grand Jubilee.

Closed to the public and press, the symposium is not expected to produce any definitive statement from the Vatican on the Inquisition. That is expected in 2000 as part of the grand ``mea culpa'' at the start of Christianity's third millennium.

The great question is whether the pontiff will ask forgiveness for the sins of the church's members, as it did with the Holocaust, or for the sins of the church itself. Unlike the Holocaust, the Inquisition was a church initiative authorized by the popes themselves.

Etchegaray on Thursday swept aside the idea that it can be seen a series of local campaigns whose excesses might be blamed on secular authorities. There was only one Inquisition, he said, and it was undeniably an ecclesiastical institution.

The pontiff may give a hint as to his thinking on Saturday, when he meets with participants in the conference.

About 50 scholars from Europe, the United States and Latin America are taking part.

AP-NY-10-29-98 1403EST

Catholic Church says must own up for Inquisition

By Alessandra Galloni

VATICAN CITY, Oct 29 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Thursday said it had to take responsibility for one of the darkest eras in Roman Catholic church history and not lay blame for the Inquisition on civil prosecutors.

Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, head of the Vatican's main committee for the year 2000, opened a three-day symposium on the Inquisition saying it was time to re-examine the work of the special court the church set up in 1233 to curb heresy.

Etchegaray said some scholars claimed there were several inquisitions: one in Rome, which worked directly under the Holy See's control, and others in Spain and in Portugal which were often aided by the local civil courts.

``We cannot ignore the fact that this (attempt to distinguish between inquisitions) has allowed some to make apologetic arguments and lay responsibility for what Iberian tribunals did onto civil authorities,'' he said.

``The fact that the Spanish and Portuguese crowns...had powers of intervention...on inquisitory tribunals does not change the ecclesiastical character of the institution,'' he said.

Pope Gregory IX created the Inquisition to help curb heresy, but church officials soon began to count on civil authorities to fine, imprison and even torture heretics.

One of the Inquisition's best known victims was the astronomer Galileo, condemned for claiming the earth revolved around the sun.

The Inquisition reached its height in the 16th century to counter the Reformation. The department later became the Holy Office and its successor now is called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which controls the orthodoxy of Catholic teaching.

Some of the conclusions of the international symposium, which ends on Saturday, could be included in a major document in which the church is expected to ask forgiveness for its past errors as part of celebrations for the year 2000.

The church ``cannot pass into the new millennium without urging its sons to purify themselves, through penitence, of its errors, its infidelities and its incoherences...,'' Father Georges Cottier, a top Vatican theologian and head of the theological commission for the year 2000, told the symposium.

Etchegaray said the conference could also draw on examples that scholars had been able to examine since January, when the Vatican opened secret files.

The archives also opened the infamous Index of Forbidden Books which Roman Catholics were not allowed to read or possess on pain of excommunication. Even the bible was on the blacklist.

Pope John Paul has said in several documents and speeches that the Church needs to assume responsibility for the Inquisition, which was responsible for the forced conversion of Jews as well as the torture and killing of heretics.

While there may have been mitigating historical factors for the behaviour of some Catholics, the Pope has said this did not prevent the church from expressing regret for the wrongs of its members in some periods of history.

He initiated the procedure that led to the rehabilitation of Galileo, completed in 1992.

19:01 10-29-98
Click to expand...

Notice "no equivocation".

Notice - refernce to the policy of torture and extermination listed previously.

How refreshing that there are some Catholics willing to place the atrocities in a more "Christian light" rather than tyring to defend or minimalize monsterous acts of atrocity - or worse - continuing to demonize the victims in "true dark ages" spirit.

In Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Oct 11, 2003

Looking at the list it is very clear the RCC is not the only place to find the books being banned. In fact - in many cases you would not expect to find the RCC having any of them.

In other words - the "secret files" that the RCC claims to be keeping from its OWN scholars is not the list of forbidden books.

In Christ,

Bob

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