Dave Ramsey investment advice

Discussion in 'Money Talk$' started by Martin Luther, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    Anyone who listens to his investment advice will loose everything.


    My email to Davey.




    I am shocked that someone who claims to be so smart can’t discern between dishonest money and honest money. Even the founding fathers understood this, and anyone who knows the American history of banking understands this principle very well. Our unconstitutional paper script will have an end and it is happening right now. With little or no one left to generate growth/debt the government has taken the role of the borrower of last resort. I suggest you read the book by Edward Griffin, Creature From Jekyll Island. If all debts were repaid there would not be "money". All your investment advise centers on investments that are someone else’s debt/obligation to pay. With foreign investors losing hope on Americas ability to pay many bonds will fail. They are cheap now for this very reason, and they will get much cheaper. Our government will print money to cover any current and future bank losses and the foreigners/investors know it. With that in mind, people should look to tangible assets, whether that be gold , silver, land, or food. Here is a link to someone who also understands economics. Your get out of debt and live within your means advise is great but your investment advice is naive at best and borders deception.

    http://www.goldenjackass.com/


    P.S. Gold is mention many times in the bible, besides its perceived value it has many industrial uses as well as its use as jewelry.





    Revelation 3:18
    I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


    Revelation 4:4
    And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.


    Revelation 8:3
    And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.



    Revelation 14:14
    And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


    Revelation 21:18
    And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.


    Revelation 21:21
    And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.


    Looks like the Almighty has an affinity towards the yellow metal.
     
  2. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher
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    If you don't like Ramsey's advice, don't listen, and don't follow it.

    But you need to know that there have been many, many people who have benefited from his teaching, me included. And many people I know have followed his teaching and have been helped tremendously.
     
  3. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    I can assure you I do not listen to him. Like I said above, some of his advice is okay, like, don't spend money you don't have.....:sleep:
     
  4. rbell

    rbell
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    Do you make it a habit of calling fellow believers names?

    I think if we put your net worth up against his, you would be found lacking.

    I have followed Dave Ramsey's advice and am in the best financial shape I've been in in years.

    Is he infallible? Of course not. But he uses data, rather than name-calling, to back up his claims.

    BTW...if you're going to disparage folks' mental ability in your posts, perhaps you should at least proofread your post for errors before doing so. Kinda is a credibility hit otherwise.

    Also...specific knowledge here: Dave Ramsey is an extremely generous person, and he has personally helped scores of people. You don't agree with his financial policy...fine; but I think he has proven his financial acumen. Have you?
     
  5. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    Yes, my friends and family have made thousands over the last two years. I have watched one friend triple his investment of 20,000 and now has a liquid 60,000 and all this while most people are losing more than half their life savings because of men like Dave. I am not saying he is not a nice guy or has not helped people get out of debt. It’s his investment advice that is so pathetic. I never give people advice, but they invest after receiving a proper understanding of what real money is. Dave Ramsey clearly does not grasp fiat currencies. People need to understand this; there is no fixing this economy while using the current system. There is no hope in any paper debt based investment. As to my proof reading, I post on other sites, I take as much care as time will allow.
     
  6. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
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    What is the specific investment advice that you think Dave Ramsey is wrong about? You've not given much context here for why you're calling him an idiot.
     
  7. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    He pushes people to invest in bonds and not gold and silver.
     
  8. SBCPreacher

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    I'm beginning to understand. "I disagree with him so I'll call him names."

    That's mature.
     
  9. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    I am not calling him “names". People who do idiotic things can be called idiots, is this to complicated? If you want to take his advice then be my guest.
     
  10. matt wade

    matt wade
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    If you don't listen to him how do you even know what he says?
     
  11. TomVols

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    Moderator's note

    Moderator's note: under BB rules, the title of this thread was inflammatory, so I edited it per discretion. Discussion of Dave Ramsey's advice and tactics are fair game. we can even say his advice is idiotic. But we cannot use inflammatory language to defame anyone. Not in a fellowship forum to boot.
     
  12. TomVols

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    As a financial professional, I meet people who have an allegiance to gold and who adhere to certain economists as many hold to a favorite Bible teacher. Let me offer the following observations:

    1. Dave Ramsey is not an economist. He has a better grasp of macroeconomics than, say, Suze Orman, but that's not saying much. His advice is micro (as micro as you can get) because it's directed at the consumer. I do wish he had better macro knowledge, but it is what it is.
    2. Dave Ramsey offers some solid advice. His debt snowball (by no means original) is sage. He encourages people to give generously and to do so to be debt free, not just be debt free for its own sake - very good advice. He has waffled on his notion of what that means, though.
    I do have some critiques of Dave Ramsey:
    1. He personally rips callers and emailers, calling them names and mocking them. Hardly Christian. I've heard him call callers idiots, stupid, and those who disagree with him are called worse. Again, calling a move or decision dumb is better than saying someone is stupid.
    2. He is inconsistent with his advice. In his first Financial Peace book, DR tells people to only invest in traditional defined contribution plans (traditional IRAs/401ks vs. Roth counterparts) because you need the tax break now and you may not live to get the tax break at retirement. Even if you do, so what. Now in his most recent book, he says just the opposite. Pay taxes while you work, he says. Live tax free off of Roth DCPs. While I know why someone would change that advice, the fact that he did shows his dogmas are not dogmas for everyone for everytime as he ardently claims.
    3. He has come under ethical fire for his alleged ch 7 personal BK as well as his company's BK. Christians should pay their debts.
    4.He has also come under fire for his "preferred provider list" of people who do financial offerings (Insurance people, realtors, etc.). While he blasts those who sell annuities (without distinguishing the FAs vs. VAs and taking into account the risk tolerance of investors), whole-life insurance salespeople (this may actually be a need for some folks who want to do estate planning w/o hiring a thousand dollar a second estate lawyer) just for two examples, he also has on his list an insurance company that sells one of the biggest cash cows for the insurance industry and biggest rip offs of consumers around - ID theft insurance targeted especially at the elderly. He also utilizes only commission-based brokerages, which can be seen as inferior to fee-only planners (perceived to be less biased since a commission isn't on the line).
    5. He has been, on multiple occasions, accused and found guilty of, using false people as callers, emailers, and testimonials at his live events.
    6. Some criticize Ramsey because, despite his criticism of credit card companies, he receives them for payment on his website and for his live site materials.
    7. I have some ancedotal, personal criticisms that I'll keep to myself (he is a grad of UT, just down the road, so our paths have crossed naturally). Let me just say this about one. Twice I have beeen in the position to be on the preferred list. The first question out of their mouth isn't "are you a Christian" or "What's your character." Instead, you're asked to pay a fee upfront. Both times this happened.

    Again, I have to respect his good advice and how can I not somewhat support a fellow UT guy :thumbs: I listed a couple of positives and 7 negatives. I do think he's got some good things to say. I just think he overgeneralizes way too much (he has to - legally he can't get too specific) but the avg hearer/reader thinks that advice will always work for him and it's not true.

    That said, spit out the bones (There are some there) and eat only the good meat. Use people like Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman (ugh - 2 of her big sponsors are Cap One and Experian), and Jim Cramer sparingly.

    The Bible is the best book you'll ever read on financial planning. You will need helps from time to time not in there because Ramsey's book has sample letters cleaning up credit bureau inaccuracies whereas the Bible doesn't. But test everything in the light of God's Word.

    I'd caution everyone not to get into the trap of thinking one method is the best method. Everyone has different investment objectives and risk tolerances.
     
  13. ccrobinson

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    More specificity please. Does he say to invest only in bonds? To invest in bonds in lieu of gold and silver? Does he recommend using several different investment instruments, which would include bond funds, stock funds, etc.? As Tom has pointed out so well, there are well-deserved criticisms of him, but I don't think much of your criticism of him, which seems to boil down to "I don't like his advice, therefore he's an idiot".

    You're kidding, right? Please tell me that you don't actually believe that saying "Dave Ramsey is an idiot" (the title of the thread before the Honorable Tomvols changed it) isn't calling somebody names.
     
  14. billwald

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    Then explain the low price of T bills and Treasury notes.
     
  15. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    Now I understand why Jesus spoke in parables.


    The latest article by Jim Willie is out and it is excellent as always.
     
  16. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther
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    That's fair.
     
  17. John Toppass

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    Dave Ramsey has too many success stories and as far as I know no one who has followed his advice is worse off for doing so. Ramsey tries to be general in his advice, but as in anything there are those who will not agree no matter what. Then there are those where even simple is difficult for them to understand.

    Also Rev. 3:18 when read in context says nor means anything about storing and investing in gold mined by men.
     
  18. TomVols

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    John, you make some fair points. However, you can make the same points about many out there. Some people have followed Jim Cramer, Bernie Madoff, et.al. and perhaps "succeeded." Just because someone has had some success following one plank of a person's advice doesn't mean that their whole body of advice is trustworthy.

    I could not disagree with this more. He is general enough to avoid litigation, yet he is quite specific. When he tells people to never buy whole life insurance, that's specific. When he (inexplicably) tells people not to have deposits in banks that are not community banks or credit unions, he is being specific. When he laughingly tells people that community banks don't fail (when 29 of the last 30 banks that went under were in fact such, and that's only because 30 is the farthest back I went), he's being specific (and quite wrong at the same time). When he tells people to only invest in growth oriented stocks and mutual funds, that's specific. And that's my biggest bone of contention with him as far as his advice goes. He treats everyone as if they're the same (so does Suze Orman, but that's only one of her many big flaws). And the problem is you have folks who listen to them who don't realize that Dave isn't talking to them at all.

    It's like going to the doctor when you're not feeling well. The doctor walks in and says "I have a great medicine here. It works. Take it." Would you take it? Most people say "yes. That's my doctor. He knows what he's talking about." But wait. You haven't told him why you're there. You haven't disclosed your symptoms. For all you know, he has cholesterol medicine in his hand and you have the flu. The medicine won't help you despite the fact that it may be the right medicine for someone else.

    That's what Dave, Suze, and others do. They prescribe medicine that would definitely work for some, but it's dangerous to assume that it should work for all.

    It's at times very frustrating to listen to/watch Dave Ramsey. He is spot on in some instances and then suddenly he boards a rocket ship to Mars. At the "Town Hall for Hope," he gave a very prescient and insightful explanation of what happened to cause the housing bubble/subprime meltdown (for want of a better term). Displayed a good grasp of macroeconomics that most of his ilk (are you listening, Jean and Suze?) do not have. Then he goes off and makes the wild claim about community banks I referenced earlier. I wonder if sometimes he gets to enamored with the sound of his own voice and plays the crowd/callers too much.

    A final point of contention I have with Dave in particular is he seems to avoid the theological implications of stewardship and the stewardship implications of theology. IOW, Dave has seemed to argue for a "whatever you can afford, do it" mentality that may or may not be Biblically informed. But that's another topic for another time.
     
    #18 TomVols, May 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2009

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