David Barton

I find Ben' Franklin's redition of 'the Lord's prayer' rather interesting.

Penned Jan. 1, 1768:

 

James Madison's response to Rev. Jasper Adams regarding religion and government and taxation
excerts follow:
timeline: Jan., 1, 1832

iow, in some of the colonies there originally existed taxation to support the churches, which gradually was removed, to give no preference to any church or denomination....... to much advantage.

iow, it sounds like Madison recommended not only no revenue of government to support religion, but also the total abstinence of government interference upon religion "beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect agst[sic] trepasses on its legal rights by others."

[emphasis and bolding added by poster.]

 

George Washington's Farewell Address 1796


Here he gives caution to economy and debts:

Additionally, he gives caution against foreign alliances, involvement in others politics, honesty in commericial ventures, the importance of unity above differences, and cautions against regional jealousies, and caution in use and abuse of powers, and the essentials of morality and law for a free people.

He closes:

 

THANKSGIVING PROCLAMATION

 

The opening to his address:

The close:

FROM HERE

 

Catcher, while there was a wide spectrum of views on religion by the founders...Deism, Christianity, Unitarianism, etc. Patrick Henry was one early patriot who was, according to my reading, staunchly Catholic, and somewhat of a theocrat in wanting to tax the citizenry to support Christian ministers. Thankfully, he was unsuccessful in his attempts to get that done.

 

Franklin's views of Jesus, while put in a very respectful manner, is error. Why? Because he denies, or at the very least doubts, the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible is very clear that Jesus is God (Jn 1:1,14, Col 1:15-16, etc). Franklin was certainly a religious man, as his statement above prove, but I don't believe we have any real reason to think that he was a Christian (Biblically speaking). Keeping in mind that Franklin wrote this letter in March of 1790. He would die less than a month later in April 1790.

This was my point with Barton. It is really easy to quote parts of someone like B. Franklin and end up misleading people about his views. I'm not saying that Barton (etc) are doing that on purpose. In fact, I think they are very sincere in their assertions. However sincerity is no measure of truth or accuracy.

 

But isn't that the whole of the point? It is not that all our founding fathers were Christian or were perfect in their theology but it is that most of them had respect for the Bible and the morals and religious expression which spring from its teachings, and revered its teachings as a suitable scafolling for social behavior and structure?

 

Catcher, if you haven't, read Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason". He was anything BUT a respecter of the Bible.

 

==I would agree that certainly Franklin falls into that category. However I would argue that Thomas Jefferson does not. Anyone who would literally cut verses out of the Bible does not respect the Bible.

 

Many of our founding fathers found T. Paine's work initiatially invigorating... but as he continued writing.... and they got to know him better, they started keeping distance from him..... some quietly, some openly denouceing him.... but generally his final reputation with them was not nearly as great as some of the history text might lead us to believe.

Washington and Jefferson were definately masons. No doubt many others were also. It seems that in times of unrest where trust and loyalties even in 'minor' things like social discourse regarding politics and disagreement with or a distrust of the justice of authorities can prove to have lasting if not fatal consequences, there's an increase in people's willingness to enter secret alliances with oaths binding them to each other in confidence. Whether Washington and Franklin were Christians..... they both exhibited in their leadership and conscience many attributes or fruit which no doubt reflected that the Bible and its teachings, if esteemed for nothing more than a superior book of religious instruction and expose of the human condition, had immense impact upon them. Franklin, if I recall correctly, was a bit more of a loose character in his personal life.

Washington, if my memory serves correctly, instituted chaplans for the military, a sabbath day of observance....provided necessity of war or emergency didn't preempt it, and, I believe, though having slaves, saw slavery as an scourge and freed them in his will.

Jefferson gave much lip service to the evils of slavery but kept his and didn't free them.....even upon his death. So much of our history refers to the 'Jeffersonian traditions' yet I have found very little of favor with Jefferson.

As for Franklin....... the constitutional congress was in a dead lock for weeks and it appeared to be tottering on the precipiece of ruin when he open with a motion and a appeal to all that they start beseeching God for wisdom and direction as they went about discussions and formulating the final document. This they did, and I have no doubt that God answered their prayers..... even perhaps moving upon those who were without faith to submit their talents to his guidance and unite in producing a document which would serve us most admirably today if strictly adhered to, imho.

Perhaps there is great difficulty in ascribing to God, His providence and blessings surrounding our early beginnings as we attempt to produce more sanitized versions of history devoid of the influence of religion: But to remove God from having directed in these affairs, is to leave wide open the question of how such a mottley body of flawed characters established a government of men and for men more perfect than any other heretofore.... and as far as I can see.... of any which will follow after?