The purpose of this thread is NOT to vincate nor accuse Mr. Cloud necessarily, but to examine how we establish such bias, such vehement passion against another within the body of Christ. It is to try and get us to start examining issues for ourselves, and to establish our opinions without the sheer use of unsupposted bias. Many good and honorable men have been slandered in the Church and castigated merely for taking a stand against, or supporting and issue that might or not be popular within the Church at that time. Mr.Cloud, of whom I have NO understanding of other than a few disparaging remarks from some on this list, and a passing glimpse of as I have perused the internet on some of the issues raised, has been called a number of things, a liar for one. Now if it is the truth that we are really after, how might one go about establishing that slanderous remark? Who would be the first to step up and give a clear supported example of a lie that they know to be the case that this man has committed?