Featured Deacon is a Cheating, What Would You Do?

Simple Really...

Church discipline is not to be handled by a popular "vote"...but by declaration of the church leadership....Pastor/Deacons or Bishops/Elders depending upon which you adhere to for church government (and I do have my opinion about that)......and then only after the other appropriate steps have been taken both privately and then by public revelation (if necessary due to the party being unwilling to publically REPENT and then only if he is obviously guilty by indisputable proof). Yes...I'll acknowledge that there will be some in the membership of the assembly that may NOT like the fact that they aren't "given a say-so" in this kind of matter but that is neither relevant OR important. They need to search their hearts and determine why they are resistant to Biblical order in the assembly and that is a matter that is between each of us and God. Roberts "rules of order" is NOT an addendum to the Holy Bible...in my humble opinion. For the record...I used to be an adherent of more pastoral authority than I currently am. As I grow older and more familiar with my Bible I'm finding myself more favorable with an "Elder-led" type of church government. Notice I DID NOT say "elderLY":laugh:. That whole matter would be best discussed in another thread. I have come to believe we place too much significance on the idea of "Pastoral Authority".IMHO. For the record though...I do HIGHLY respect and love the man I call "My Pastor". He is a wonderful preacher and a compassionate man of God.....and my friend.

Bro.Greg

 

Yes

Scarlett.....AMEN to EVERYTHING both you and Oldtimer said......and you are sooo very right about the "judge not" thing. David Cloud has and excellent book entitled "Judge Not! Is it Legalism to Judge Sin and Error?"
Very relevant to the church in our day and I highly recommend it! It can be found via his wayoflife.org website.

Bro.Greg:applause:

Bro.Greg

 

An Interesting Purpose...Indeed!

That still (vs 17) doesn't necessarily dictate the idea of "voting" as we know it in todays churches. It just means that he was "excluded/removed from the assembly. The fact is...all a "vote" may actually end up doing is identifying the depth or magnitude of any given dissent or division in the assembly. Church splits are a terrible thing and an awful testimony to the lost world around us. There is the POTENTIAL for much division everytime a vote is taken. Thankfully...that kind of church-splitting division doesn't happen more often. As I said previously, democracy (mob rule) is NOT a biblical form of church government...IMHO.:type: I long for the Kingdom when our Lord Jesus Christ will rule forevermore! AMEN?!

Bro.Greg

 

Verse 17 is speaking of the church as a body, not a bunch of individuals. The church is never identified as a group of individuals that I am aware.

It is only up to each individual member as to "what they will do" only if the congregation refuses to take the proper action.

 

Perhaps!

Jesus Christ says that if the sinner will not hear the Church that person is to be treated as "an heathen man and a publican." In this instance the church is not so much voting on sin as on the refusal of the person to hear the church as the Body of Christ. The problem Paul addressed in 1 Corinthians 5 was not the sinner but the refusal of the Church to deal with grievous sin.

Sadly the church of this day tolerates grievous sin and on occasion endorses sin [homosexual marriage and abortion for example] so there is a vote whether formal or not.

It is my belief that if the person in the OP is guilty then he will not admit to sin. Homosexuals do not usually concede that their behavior is sin. Then if the Church does not exclude him they become partakers of his sin.

 

Just what is the Biblical form of Church government?

The only way a person can be excluded from a Baptist Church is by a vote of the members!

Church splits are not an awful testimony to the world if the reason is failure to deal with sin. The problem with the Church today is 1}that they tolerate, and even worse endorse, sin and 2}they bring profane things of the world into the Church. The world around us looks at the Church and sees nothing but "the world".

 

1. It seems from 1 Cor. 5 that Paul is speaking to the church at large about how to treat an unrepentant sinner, not simply to the leadership...Every member is to carry out the separation. It does not say to take a vote, but it also doesn't say the Elders make the decision and then tell the congregation what to do.

2. I have seen churches with both congregational rule (most baptist churches, btw), and those that are Elder led. There are advantages and disadvantages to both...I'm not convinced that either is being sinful and disobedient scripture simply by their mode of church government. I DO think any church where the pastor just does whatever he wants without either congregational or Elder accountability is not in a good place.

 

The Church is a body composed of the baptized believers, that is in a Baptist Church. Rightly or wrongly that is the node we have selected. The Church is not the Church leaders and they are not granted the role of discipline. Counseling yes but discipline no. That is the task of the congregation. Just as members are voted in they also must be voted out.

 

Well the Churches that I am familiar with vote members in to the fellowship, they vote when a member asks for transfer of membership to another church of like faith and order. They also vote to dismiss a member that joins a church of a different denomination. The only way a member can be excluded in a Southern Baptist Church is by vote of the membership.

I have seen it done though not in a Southern Baptist Church.

As far as voting someone out who no longer darkens the doors it does not happen that I am aware.

 

1. Find the Truth. If it is true....
2. Talk to the deacon.
3. Ask him to step back for a time and work on things with his wife.
4. If he doesn't, take it to the next level of taking some deacons with you.

I am not sure that I feel it necessary to announce much of anything....

 

Yes, better another thread to debate the merits of congregation vs elder government. I will point out that you mention deacons as part of the decision making. They are not a consideration. Deacons are servents, not a governing authority. A deacon can vote yes or no in a congregational government. In an elder form of government, one cannot be a deacon and elder at the same time. Again, the form of government is up to each local church, unless of course, you would prefer a hierarchy.

 

NOT Trying To Start A Fuss...

Bro....I agree with you...and I don't agree with you. While the local church IS a definite assembly of believers (and I do believe in a local AND a universal church) there are guidlines given in scripture that designate a leadership/governing structure and within certain scriptural guidelines it does bear some measure of authority within the assembly.
However, I do not see that authority as being of a pastoral nature but rather it is to be practiced by elders.IMHO.... It is late as I'm typing (after 3am)this but I will try in the next day or so to supply the supporting scriptures for what I just said unless somebody else beats me to it.
On another note though, I still find absolutely in any scripture that I am personally aware of that supports the practice of a "voting" membership. For that matter I find no scripture that supports the concept of a "church membership roll" either. I have participated in BOTH for my entire church life since being saved....but it was only because I was told that's the way it's done...not because I ever saw or read it in scripture.

Bro.Greg:smilewinkgrin:

 

Yes....

SN...you are essentially correct that the deacons role is to be that of a servant as determined in Acts 6. However, I have observed and heard of some in that "office" getting "out of biblical order" in some churches and trying to "run the show". I'd have to leave a church like that (after I spoke up about it of course:tear. I guess I should have been clearer about that in my previous post. Thanks for bringing a little clarity on that matter.
I'll also add that the type of government I'd personally PREFER both IN church and IN the world I live in would be God's kind of government. That would NOT be a hierarchy, a monarchy, a republic, certainly not a democracy, or elder, pastoral, or congregational rule, but rather A PURE theocracy of the type that God will institute in that blessed millenial kingdom that our Lord will rule and reign in. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!!

I would also like to apologize for basically taking part in hijacking this thread. I hope the OP will forgive me. I also hope that the Deacon that is being discussed will get his heart right with the Lord. We do need to pray for this guy.....and his family.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

A homosexual should not be working with young or teen age children anywhere or anytime. That is inviting child abuse. We saw a great deal in the Roman Catholic Communion and I know of two cases in local Baptist Churches, one by a deacon who is now in prison if he is still living and the second a pastor who eventually left his wife for a younger man and who also may be dead.

in the case of the pastor his wife found out about it, went to another pastor for advice. He told her to leave her husband as they don't change. She did not but he did!