Deacon's that accept Christ

Well, somewhere along the line a man's business acumen (not to mention how much he gives in the offerings) began to outweigh his Bible abilities when it came time to weigh his worthiness as 'deacon material'.

 

Just because someone knows the Bible does not mean they know God. Look at Judas, the disciples, and Jesus. The disciples were fooled.

 

I don't see why anyone would be stunned that this could happen - a deacon in the church realizing he wasn't saved. After all, it is not that hard to "play church". There are many many people out in our world right now living moral, decent, and loving lives who make no claim of Christ at all......

I rejoice that this man finally came to grips with his fallent state and got right with God and got saved! I agree with the solution of having him become an inactive member of the deacon board for a short time. I say a short time, because this ought not be seen as a punishment. He got saved! This is a good thing!

Deacons are servants - not authority figures over the preacher. and No, I do not believe that deacons necessarily have to be the most knowledgeable in scriptures. They need to have a heart for God and for people, and they need to be men of good standing and reputation. (attributes, btw, which you can have without being saved) so I can see how a church might not have infallible sight on another person's salvation.

 

I agree with those who feel he should be removed. Regardless of how much Bible "knowledge" he may have, he's an infant in God's eyes...needing milk. A new convert is not to be an elder / deacon, period, something he would most definately be.

 

Scripture knowledge has nothing to do with your position in Christ. The demons know the scripture pretty well.

 

I have.

A former youth minister at our church (who, prior to coming as a youth minister, had been a full-time evangelist and a pastor) came to know the Lord in one of our services. His name is Alan Damron and he currently serves at FBC Springdale, Arkansas.

 

I wonder- how long were Stephen and the other six saved before they became deacons? That is if you believe that the men in Acts 6 were the first deacons.

 

How and when God saved a Baptist preacher-

http://www.radiomissions.org/sermons/bapprch.html

 

Baptist Believer,
I am not really disputing anything you have said. And I personally know and know of a number of people in my town who presumably really came to Christ for the first time, after they had thought for years that they were Christians.

However, sometimes I have to wonder if what has really happened is that a person came to Christ as a 10-year-old, he did not get the best discipling, he's now 40 or 50, the memory has faded, and an emotional evangelist in a revival emphasizes walking that aisle to make sure. The person does, has an emotional experience and believes it means he is now a Christian for the first time. I believe I have seen this happen, too.

In the old days of scheduled revivals, some people "accepted" Christ twice a year. Each time they were earnest about how it had never been real till then.

 

I'm sure that happens sometimes. In fact, I believe I have seen that happen myself.

Unfortunately for your theory, most of the people I have seen come to Christ after being church members for years did not do it in an "emotional" church meeting or through the promptings or manipulations of an "emotional evangelist" (although I know of a few of those by name who go around the country 're-baptizing' congregations).

The people I'm thinking of mostly came to faith outside an organized meeting of the church and had been wrestling with the issue long-term. A number of them were children of pastors (they walked the aisle, said the right things and got baptized because they wanted to please their parents, not because they were responding to the inward draw of the Spirit) or those who had been manipulated by evangelists or Sunday School teachers to be baptized without ever making any sort of commitment to Christ. When I was growing up, I was hounded by Sunday School teachers from the 3rd to 6th grade who wanted everyone to get baptized before they promoted out of the class. I was called out by name in front of the class several times (especially in th 4th grade) by a well-meaning Sunday School teacher who pointed out that I was one of only two people in the class who had not been baptized. She asked, "Why don't you love Jesus?" Fortunately, I have always resented manipulation, so I resisted them and made up my mind not to "walk the aisle" unless the gospel made sense to me. Of course, coming from a church that had a history of baptizing children who had been manipulated, I have had the opportunity to see many people I know come to Christ after being church members for years. In the mid-1980s, my home church went through a renewal that began with men's all-night prayer meeting in the summer of 1984 and waned in late 1986. God started working in our congregation, even without special emphases or programs, and people started being converted, both inside and outside the congregation. I didn't realize it until it was over, but our church went through a 3-year revival period, although there were only special meetings for "revival" once a year. Most of the decisions were made in the months between those special meetings. So there was no manipulation going on.

In my experience, only a very small number of people I have know personally have done anything like that. I've probably known about 50-60 people who have made professions of faith after they had been previously a church member, and only two of them have made a profession since that time. Furthermore, most of those people who I have known had their lives turn around radically and have become strong believers and leaders in their churches. I have not heard anyone of them ever change their stories in regard to when they were truly born again.

 

This is the precise reason that deacons who come to a saving knowledge of the Lord should not immediately be made deacons again. They may be mature church members, but are spiritual babies.

About ten years ago, this happened to three of our deacons almost at the same time. Two of them were elected deacons and ordained eight years later, even though each continued to work diligently in the church, just the same as before. The third did the same, but has not been elected again just yet.

How could this happen? For the same reason so many church members go through the same thing. They all walked the aisle. They all said the prayer. But all three of them came to the conclusion that they had never come under Holy Spirit conviction, never repented of their sins, and had never experienced forgiveness of those sins.

Is it easy to fool church members by false professors? Yes. On a mission trip to Romania, our teenage translator told us that when Communism fell in 1989, three of their church deacons disappeared. They were Communists who had infiltrated the church. Not only were they not saved, they were actually atheists They had faked it so well, the church believed they were spiritual men and elected them deacons.

 

The Word of God tells us to know them that labor among you. If one desires the office of a deacon, or a bishop, or any other office in the sanctuary, that office is representing the Body of Christ.

We had better know those who desire this office. Prove them before laying hands on them. Test them before anointing them with oil. Know them before they fill the shoes of such high regard.

In the Old Testament, God set down laws, specific laws for those who would be priests in the Tabernacle. If one was found to be a false prophet, or found to be in sin in the tabernacle, he was removed from office ...and in many instances, was killed by God Himself or ordered to be killed.

I am not saying to kill this man, but he needs to be removed and until there is a proving period, he should not fill the office of the deacon. Unfortunately, because of his initial deceit, or the oversight of the pastor, the man and possibly the pastor's judgments as to who qualifies for an office is diminished greatly.

 

While in Bible College in the late 60’s a missionary who had served in China from before the Communist Revolution told us of a national pastor who was a secret communist.

When the missionary was expelled from China this “pastor” openly wept as he told of him of his devotion to Mao and the principles of communism.

HankD

 

This seems unduly harsh if indeed the man thought he was saved. I agree he should be removed from office for the reasons Tom states - he is a spiritual infant, but "initial deceit" ??

I understand that there are some wicked people in our churches who are deceitful, but my understanding is that this discussion is talking about the one who thought he was saved and realized he wasn't. Don't we all know people who have been in the church so long that they know ALL the answers backwards and forwards as head knowledge? This isn't deceit, they think they are saved. They may well even have an event to point to as the moment of their salvation experience. When they realize that all they had was head knowledge, then things start over so-to-speak. This issue is that after salvation, they have to experience all those previously known answers fresh and from the perspective of their new relationship. They may be farther along because they have that head-knowledge though. They are already students of the word.

 

sorry to disagree, mcdirector...

But the Word of God tells us that the Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. If one thinks he is saved, and is not, God's Spirit will let him know he is not.

 

And apparently that has happened... although, not according to your timetable.

 

I think you miss our point. We believe he was "playing deacon" and not a real deacon, for deacons are "ordained". If he was "playing" being saved as some have suggested, I know he would have to be playing "being a deacon". Maybe that will help explain what we mean, when he, as you said, "came to know Christ", that he should of also, "came to know he was not a deacon".

If we had a minister that said he had just received Christ and had been wrong about his conversion before, we would make a move and second to revoke his credentials and he no longer would be a ordained minister. If that minister didn't say that he now had received Christ and come in as a new member, we would also remove him from the membership of the church.

 

Can you accept the idea that a lost person might be deceived? And since he has been deceived, he is not maliciously "playing" deacon?

Given time and an explanation from godly and loving members of your congregation, I'm sure that would become clear.

Would you also go to the church parsonage, toss every one of his possessions out onto the sidewalk, change the locks and leave he and his family on the street?

I certainly hope not. Perhaps in your zeal to cleanse your congregation of a formerly converted sinner, you might slow down a moment, exercise a bare minimum of grace and work through the situation with them instead of making instant reactive decisions.

In our situation, we allowed our youth minister to stay on staff and let him work through his situation. He was still convinced that God had called him to the ministry, and his efforts bore rich fruit (not like his efforts before his conversion), so he continued with the able assistance of other ministers, parents, and mature church workers.

 

I find this very hard to have to try and defend something which is so obvious. The person admits his mistake but the church wants to carry on with the false pretense. I don't think you would be doing him a favor, by keeping him in a position that he is not called to, ordained to or should be.

That is what is wrong today with the churches, way too much pretense going on. If someone is completely honest, and says he had not ever been saved, why not be truthful with him, and tell him the steps he needs to take to get on the right track, instead of keeping him in a position he for sure don't belong. You wouldn't go out on the street and get someone and ordain them would you. I believe in being just as honest with the person, as he was with the church. You can call it wrong all you want, but I think that is what Christ would do.

I don't think I would be mean at all, but loving if I told a person the truth, for if he came up some man made way, he never would be right. Just maybe that is why he got himself in that position in the first place. Someone told him he was saved by repeating some little prayer and really not repenting. Or maybe the told him he was saved before he even knew if he was lost? I have heard statements made in the past to people " you would make a good preacher". Well, lets wait until God calls him. What do you think. :BangHead:

Edit;

Seems to me, you had it about right here. Maybe you should take your own advice as long as you move him to a position which is not a deacon and that is after "he is saved" , which is what should of happened before all this started.

I will never forget when Jim Swaggert stood up and said "I have sinned" boo hooing all the way and he got a "standing ovation". I got sick to the pit of my stomach.