Dead To Sin

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by adisciplinedlearner, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 6
    [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.


    We become dead to sin at the time of our baptism, and we begin to walk in newness of life at that time. Baptism is used here to represent initial conversion to Christ. This means that we become dead to sin at the time of our initial conversion to Christ.
     
  2. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 6:2 uses the Aorist tense of completed action. We are not progressively dyng but we are dead in Christ. Romans 6:1-2 for the link between Romans 3:24-5:22 where justification by faith is a completed action in the past at the point of faith in the gospel (Rom. 4:23-5:2) as Paul uses the perfect tense with the Aorist to demonstrate we haved LEGALLY and POSITIONALLY died in Christ.

    Rom. 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
    1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



    Romans 6:3-4 provides the Biblical visible expression of gospel faith in Christ, His death, burial and resurrection in baptism.

    Romans 10:10 again denies that regeneration occurs in baptism but occurs at the point when a person "with the heart" believes the gospel of Jesus Christ. Every account in the book of Acts demonstrates gospel faith "with the heart" occurs BEFORE baptism not in baptism.
     
  3. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 10:9 has to do with baptism. The Lord Jesus is confessed at the time of baptism, and one shows that he believes in his heart in the death, burial, and resurrection by being baptized.
     
  4. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 6
    [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
    [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


    Before we obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered unto us (namely, baptism), we were servants of sin. Now that we have so obeyed, we are servants of righteousness. This is another way of saying that we became dead to sin and alive unto God when we were baptized.
     
  5. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Saying one must be baptized in order to be born again is "in your case willful" ignorance. There is a Greek word for your theology..... Bologna!
     
    #5 Jedi Knight, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2010
  6. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brother Jedi, This is what the New Testament teaches. Our experiences need to be aligned with Scripture, not Scripture aligned with our experiences.
     
  7. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    If scripture can be interpreted like this, then, you can use the Bible to teach anything you like and defend any error you choose.

    John, I will issue this challenge to you one more time because you have yet to answer it.

    "Where in Acts can you find just one example where repentance and faith did not precede baptism? Just one Biblical example?"

    "Where in scripture can you find any command or precept that teaches that repentance and faith do not precede baptism?"


    IF YOU CANNOT FIND EXAMPLE OR PRECEPT IT IS ABSOLUTE PROOF YOU ARE TEACHING HERESY AND FALSELY INTERPRETING SCRIPTURE TO SUIT YOUR HERESY.
     
  8. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    In your case it is entirely mystical, and as you have used the word yourself, gnostic as well.
    You pick the experience you have, and then try to align it with Scripture. I believe that is what you just said. "Our experiences need to be aligned with Scripture." Hypothetically then you can believe in speaking in tongues and rolling down the aisles is your experience. You align it with Scripture--the proof texts that you believe are the correct interpretation.
    Now we know that the above scenario is not aligned with a proper hermeneutical approach to Scriptures and is therefore an unbiblical practice.

    Your "experience" (baptismal regeneration) only aligns with your interpretation of Scripture because your interpretation of Scripture is as the above poster said: bologna. That is delicately put. It is outright blatant heresy. Your experience does not align with Scripture. Your motto is also confused.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    I believe you have misunderstood his statement.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    It wouldn't be the first time; but I dissected it the best I could.
     
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0



    HP: DW, you must be stuck in reverse osmosis. Where does it ever state or imply that we are ‘dead in Christ????’ We are to be ALIVE in Christ not dead.
     
  12. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    How do you know what it means if your not sure about your own conversion? When a sinner puts their faith in Christ substitution for their sins they died with him and made alive spiritually having raised them up....seated in the Heavenly realms.
     
    #12 Jedi Knight, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2010
  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: I have never stated once that one cannot be sure of their salvation for they can be, i.e. by faith. I hope you get some sense of satisfaction out of misrepresenting another’s beliefs because you certain make a habit of it. You fight as one that beateth the air when you do that JK. Fighting windmills would be far more profitable venture I would think.
     
  14. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    You might be deceived...you said so yourself! Holy Spirit witness is a real thing Heavenly!
     
  15. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    JK stated it correctly. I suppose you don't believe in substitutionary atonement either? You don't believe that when Christ died to sin the believer died with him?

    "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;" - Rom. 7:4

    2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Rom. 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences,

    Rom. 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    The justice of the law was unleashed upon Christ in his death on the cross. He was "made to be sin FOR US" and therefore when he died we died to the law's penalty so that sin is not "imputed" to us (Rom. 4:7) but imputed to him just as his righteousness is imputed to us as we are "made the righteousness of God IN Him." Hence, the blessed man or the justified man has died to sin in Christ by faith.

    This is the justified state expressed in the imagery of baptism.
     
  16. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    New Testament gospel preachers called upon their hearers to repent, believe, and confess Christ in baptism. Those who obeyed the gospel did all of these things. They were converted to Christ in this way.

    It is too bad these things are not being done today in denominational Christendom.
     
  17. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Notice no one is buying your argument.
     
  18. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not expect others to believe what the New Testament says about these matters. Denominational Christians are too closely tied to man-made tradition to believe the truth of the New Testament. They use the Bible when it supports their beliefs and practices, but they stick to man-made tradition when the Bible does not support their beliefs and practices. This is true of every denomination.
     
  19. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Or someone like yourself who seems to be the "wise one" and tell it like it really is. You know Joseph Smith fancied himself like that too.
     
  20. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: I certainly do believe in substitutionary atonement but certainly I reject the usupported Calvinistic notion of the literal payment theory.


    HP: Where do any of these verse state or imply we are dead in Christ? We are alive in Christ and dead to sin, or we certainly should be if our hope is founded upon the Rock.


    HP: What? What was unleashed on Christ was in no way 'justice.' What are you talking about?




    HP: DW, I have never met anyone that can presume more out of Scripture without clear evidence than you do. You start off with a Scriptural statement and then stand it on it’s head with the Calvinistic notion of imputed righteousness. It can be said we have died to sin if we are saved and in a right relationship with God and not practicing sin, but the notion of Calvinistic imputed righteousness, in that any present or future sin we commit has already been forgiven and the penalty for it covered by the cross via a literal payment already having been made is pure Calvinistic falsehood.

    If one believes he is ‘dead to sin’ while still living in sin apart from true repentance and turning away from sin, he is simply deceived as to what was accomplished on the cross and ones standing before God. Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
     
    #20 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2010

Share This Page

Loading...