Dealing with the problems of today

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Judith, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Judith

    Judith
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  2. mont974x4

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    If they refused to correct the sinful lifestyle then church discipline would demand they be not allowed in the church.
     
  3. Magnetic Poles

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    Heavens yes. Because #1, we know that Jesus never gave us an example of hanging out with those despised by the world, and #2, the gospel message is not important enough to have someone where they might hear it. Keep our congregations full of only the most self righteous saints, for heaven's sake!
    :BangHead:
     
  4. mont974x4

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    MP. go ahead and bang your head. There is a distinct difference seen in Scripture between how we treat people inside the church and outside the church. We don't expect sinners to do anything but sin. We expect people professing to be Christian to walk in obedience and if they don't we have no choice. We have to engage in church discipline per Matthew 18 and 1 Cor 5.

    1Co 5:9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
    1Co 5:10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
    1Co 5:11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
    1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
    1Co 5:13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. (NASB)


    Take your misguided outrage to God. He's the one you have an argument with, not me.
     
  5. HankD

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    Agreed, however there is a consequence - as this age progresses toward a complete overthrow of the basic tenents of God's creation, the church will suffer the wrath of the up and coming ungodliness of this age.

    Here in the State of WA "same gender" marriage was made legal this past election.

    What many of us are wondering is what will happen legally to the local church when the first "married" couple are refused church membership on the basis of an unrepentant sinful lifestyle and consequently the couple brings a lawsuit?

    I expect that other laws will be passed requiring us to accept legal "gender assignment" (for instance) with similar consequences for refusal to accept the "assignment".

    The storm clouds are on the horizon.

    HankD
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    Treat them the way you would want to be treated.

    If you refuse to allow them to attend you will never have a chance of influencing them one way or the other.

    Let the person who is without sin cast the first vote.
     
  7. Robert Snow

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    Spoken like a true Pharisee!
     
  8. HankD

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    True, but if a local church is shut down due to a dicrimination law suit then what?

    I suppose local churches could forego a "church membership" role and avoid the issue.


    HankD
     
  9. nodak

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    Where I live, this is a medical specialty.

    Many of these children are identified to begin with by doctors as "born biologically male" or "born biologically female." But now that we have dna testing, it turns out many are not.

    Many are true duel sex chimeras--a fertilized egg, male and a fertilized egg, female, join at about the one cell stage. One person is formed. One.

    But that person may have parts that are female and parts that are male and it may not show up to the drs. In one case, a female-female chimera almost lost custody of her own biological daughter because routine dna testing showed she was not the mom. But extensive testing finally found the dna of the "mom" residing in the woman.

    I don't know about this little boy. But, because it is hitting him as a child rather than an adult swinger, I would suspect he has a biological problem. There is a strong chance that his plumbing is indeed male (has anyone checked his internal plumbing?) but that his brain has female dna.

    So let me ask you this: if conjoined twins came to your church, how would you treat the family? Would you judge their "sinfulness" or would you support and help them?

    In the name of grace, since there is a medical possibility this is not sin but birth defect in this child, let us act compassionately. After all, I seem to remember some self righteous folk hollering sinner about a man born blind, but Jesus didn't seem to agree with them.
     
  10. Crabtownboy

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    Thanks for a most fascinating post. There is so much we have yet to learn about we humans.
     
  11. Arbo

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    I may be reading too much into the posts in this thread, but is everybody on the same page? It seems like some are talking about attendance, and others membership. I would think that each has a different set of expectations.
     
  12. annsni

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    If a family came to church where the child was beating up other children, what would you do? Or a child that regularly stole from others - and the parents were trying to figure out a way to encourage that and allow them to steal more?

    What would you do?
     
  13. nodak

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    This child is not beating up other children, though, is he?

    He surely does seem odd to us, but then it is a sin to disrespect someone simply because they seem odd to us, isn't it?

    Now I am the first to say there seem to be some grown up adults who have experimented with every dirty thing they can in the physical realm, and then suddenly develop a propensity to cross dress or want to change their gender. I get that. That is flat out wrong.

    But this is a child, not a jaded old adult. Which makes me suspect he may have a genetic problem. Maybe he is not xy, but xxy. Or maybe he is a chimera. Or maybe he is missing or malfunctioning in his internal boy parts.
    Or maybe he has a tumor causing him to produce too much estrogen--men make it too, you know.

    Rather than judge him or his family, I believe as Christians we stand with them and help them through the medical issues. Many families find it soooo embarrassing to learn their little boy has ovaries, or their little girl has testicles, or their apparently a boy or girl child has neither.

    Transgender children have such a tough time, and it is usually medical. Some were born ambiguous, mom and dad and the dr made a "choice" and it turned out the wrong one. Can you imagine the pain and shame, and then when you get their mistake corrected you get self righteous people judging you?

    Believe me, we have a lot of kinks in our world and our town. But these young children are neither kinky nor sinful. Usually what they have is a birth defect.

    And they get judged sinners because of it.

    So sad.
     
  14. Salty

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    I think Ann gave us an interesting analogy. At what point do we draw the line?

    And as Arbo stated that attendance and membership is two different situation. You cannot impose church discipline on non-members.

    A church MUST have standards. And those standards should be higher than worldly standards - (as long as they are not prohibited by scripture)
     
  15. Jerome

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    Gender-obsessed churches could probably get quite a deal right now on those body-scan machines:

    http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Tec...h-controversial-body-scan/UPI-46501358686702/

     
  16. annsni

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    No, he doesn't seem "odd" to us but instead is showing clear signs of sin. He needs a Savior. Pure and simple. If he refuses to understand that fact and instead embrace his sin, then we must do what we must do with other unrepentant sinners - walk away. Can we still try to minister to his family? Absolutely. Can they be a part of the congregation? Absolutely not. Scripture is quite clear on that matter.
     
  17. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    What did GOD CREATE?

    There is NO legitimate gender known as "transgender" found in the Word of God and THAT (the Word of God) is the only place we as Christians should go to seek the answers for these "modern" dilemas we find ourselves faced with. Please reference the following to SOLVE the gender "confusion". A simple reading (and believing of the plain english of the Bible will clear up any question of same-sex (so-called) marriage, the ENTIRE issue of the "homosexual" lifestyle, trangenderism, or any other abhorrent abominable lifestlye. Please reference the following:

    Genesis 1:26 - 28:
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    Also Note - Genesis 2:18 - 25:
    18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
    19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
    20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
    22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

    Plain and simple belief in the What the Word of God says and teaches clears up the whole mess for any who are honest and want to follow God. I know everyone here has probably heard the cliche "God created Adam and Eve...NOT Adam and Steve"....that may be worn thin but it is still no less true. I would add that He did NOT create little JOEY to grow up as little JOSIE. That is a product of satanic gender confusion which was not properly cleared up by his parents or the other adult or peer influences in his life. In God's eyes HE is and always will be ....a HE. The bottom line is that they all need Jesus Christ as He is the ONLY hope and as John 14:6 states:
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    He (the Lord Jesus Christ) IS "ground zero" for hope in the lives of ANY of these dear people. As for us...IF we are to profess ourselves to be Bible Believers and declare to a lost world that we not only know the Truth, but have the answers for what ails this sin-cursed world...then we must be true to that Book and our Saviour and go only to them for our answers as well. All this psycho-babble helps nothing. We have to be consistent with the truth we profess to believe or we should just remain quiet.....in my humble opinion.:saint:

    Bro.Greg
     
  18. Magnetic Poles

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    There is definitely a medical condition, validated by not only external organs, but by chromosomal diagnosis, of people born with gender identity issues. This is undeniable fact. Hermaphroditism has been around as long as there have been human beings.
     
  19. Oldtimer

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    Broad sweeping statements often have little basis in fact.

    1) God did not create the first human beings with what we consider today to be "birth defects".

    2) The OP article states:
    There isn't any evidence presented that this child suffers from hermaphroditism.

    3 )Hermaphroditism:
    Do those stats reflect how many we see in the world around us with regards to "alternatives lifestyles"?
     
  20. Jerome

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    There's nothing new under the sun.

    Deuteronomy 23:1
    No one whose ----- are crushed or whose ----- is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.
     

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