Featured Dealing with the problems of today

The Curse

The only thing I find in the Bible to explain the way things are in this world is the fall of man into sin (in Genesis) and the subsequent curse. There is only one cure for that and His name is Jesus Christ. It is wrong to try to explain away SIN with science (so-called) or some bogus medical or psychological explanation. The root cause of every aberration is always sin and our fallen nature. Any attempt to explain away SIN in man, in any of it's variety of forms is satanic. What you suggest in your statement above is that God has made some mistake of nature. Unless you can find a clear Biblical explanation for what you are suggesting then you need to repent. Man makes mistakes and commits sins that have eternal consequences. God does NOT make mistakes. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but My God makes no mistakes...genetic or otherwise.

Bro.Greg

 

My brother was born blind in one eye. Adam and Eve were created perfect, and only after sin entered the world would anyone suffer blindness.

So I guess he isn't good enough for some Baptist churches?

Transgender problems can occur for many reasons. Some are definitely sinful in which a person willingly and knowingly simple chooses to reject their gender and live as the other gender. Of course, sometimes around the world that is a necessity for a short time, such as women escaping Islam pretending to be men for a time in order to be allowed to travel. I don't think that would be sin.

But for some it really is a birth defect, and we are finding out it is not as rare as we once thought. Science is learning so much about this. Remember at one time it was thought men planted whole babies in the womb, not knowing women contributed an egg. Some denied the existence of the egg on theological grounds also. Before science caught up with the fact of conjoined twins, some thought of them as "two headed babies" and blamed the parents for the sins that caused this.

To just assume this CHILD is rejecting Christ and sinning because of his confusion is....well, beyond words to me.

Let me tell you about a family I know. Sis number one produced 6 kids as I've been told, and 4 of them were hermaphrodites. The other two were sterile females. Sis number two produced 4 kids. 2 were healthy males that were able to marry and reproduce. 1 was a sterile female who married and sees herself as hetero. 1 was pronounced female at birth and married. When she turned out sterile she learned she had no ovaries. As she aged her body clearly appeared male in every way except external lower genitals. Her husband divorced her and she began to self identify as gay because she had not been attracted to men but to women. She died young. Was she gay? Was she transgender or asexual? I don't know, and believe celibacy would have been a better choice for her. But the truth is, given her family history, she was at very least a tortured individual with a body that even the coroner refused to pronounce male or female.

So how should a church have reacted to the first person in this family to show this analomy? With rejection and condemnation for a birth defect? Or with compassion?

There have been cases where the chimerism showed more clearly because two ethnicities or races were involved. If a checkerboard chimera (two torso quadrants black and two white) came to your church and applied for membership, would you call them sinners for being in this condition and reject them?

If your concern is for the souls of children who are not afflicted in this way being exposed to this afflicted child, why not rather teach them that you simply don't know why he is thinking he is really a girl? Why not give them the science behind SOME transgender birth defects, and teach them to give him the benefit of the doubt until more is known?

Is this how we want to be judged?

 

lots of pharisaical answers, really.
having said that, let's take a look at some things here.
first, the blogger did not say this family was a Christian family, neither did the family in question say that during the video (unless I missed it because I did not watch the other sequences anymore).
to be honest, I found it repulsive to my Christian nature.
however, the question begs itself ?
What would I do if I, at this stage of my life as a Christian, have a child such as this ?
What would my church do ?
What should I expect my brothers and sisters in Christ to do ?
Surely, being a Christian does not exempt me, or anyone on this board, from tragedies of a fallen world such as this ?
Should my church hold a meeting telling me at its culmination that until I do something about my child they cannot admit me as a member in good standing?
Should I tell my child that on Sundays he/she needs to stay home and cannot come with the family to church and Sunday dinner ?
It is soooooo eaaaasssy to reach for the Bible and recite Scripture and point a finger at the sinner UNTIL it happens to us, wouldn't you all agree ?
Here's what I know I will do, though.
The child is mine, in this time plane.
Much as I love my Creator and know my Creator loves me, I cannot disown what He has given me, therefore I will love my child to the best of my ability and accept him/her as he/she is.
When he/she gets to that age that he/she understands, I will explain to him about the issues of a fallen world.
I will expect my church, and my brothers and sisters in Christ, to love my child as if he/she were their own as well because the church is a place for wounded and healing souls, not a place where wounded souls have salt rubbed on them.
I WILL NOT EXPECT them to admit him/her into the fellowship, into membership but I WILL EXPECT THEM to allow her to sit in their midst AND HOPE TO THE LORD for I know that whatsoever things He does, He does well, and if He saw it fit for me to have this child then TRUST is what I need to learn.
When my child gets a little older to understand that churches have rules, codes of conduct, and doctrines they abide by, I will explain why he/she cannot be a member of the church, but can come as a sitting friend of the church.
Condemn the "friendship" if you will, but that's how it will be.

 

Annsi, your scripture quote doesn't address the situation. Of course we do not allow those practicing those sins in our church.

But the OP is talking about a child who may conceivably have a birth defect.

Why not instead of condemning or condoning, find out from the family first if they know if there is a genetic problem or not. And even if they don't know--remember, some ARE found to be genetic down the road but not initially--why not really listen to what they are saying?

As to the family I spoke of, they moved here from California and are in the annals. Considering where I live it isn't at all odd to have way more than the average number of people with chromosomal abnormalities.

Strange as it sounds, many if not most of those so afflicted do choose to remain celibate. They simply want to present to the world consonant with who they are in their inner being.

I think some confuse this with transvestitism, which indeed is forbidden in scripture and is ALWAYS sinful. There you have intentional deceit of one's true gender, often with overtones of forbidden sexual activity. That is very very different from these tortured souls that may be proven to have both male and female genetics.

If this child proves to have (or if God alone knows he has) say a male body and female brain, you would also stand before God and answer for how you treated this "least of these." I don't think any true church should give a carte blanche license to sin to anyone. But people CAN remain celibate. No matter what their genetic makeup.

Again, I would never advocate for male/male "relationships", or female/female, or transvestitism, or even the old unisex look. I stand firmly AGAINST the idea we each get to choose what gender we want to be, the liberal kookiness. That is pure dee old sinful rebellion.

But when you get young kids with no axe to grind that self identify differently than they are plumbed you can pretty much bet there is something physically wrong. Which bears being patient as medicine figures it out.

And while some translations do speak of being "effiminate" as sinful in English, it doesn't in English discriminate between women or men being effiminate. So we have to go back to the Greek, at which time we find it not quite what we expected. A young boy with girlish mannerisms is not what "effiminate" means in the Greek.

I grew up watching an effiminate boy being denigrated by the local church folks. I have no idea why he was that way, but he grew up, married, has a family, and is a good man. He still runs like a girl and throws like a girl, but aside from that, he is pretty masculine. Well, except for his eyelashes. But you get the point.

Now pray tell what is HIS sin?

 

Getting back to the OP, how should a Pastor/Elder deal with this situation?

One aspect of this is the effect this child will have on the other children. If this 11 years old child wants to attend a Sunday School class with other children, how should the church/teacher handle it?

1. Just ignore the situation and its effect on other children?

2. Keep reminding the class that Homosexual behavior is wrong?

3. Put the child in a special class separate from other impresionable children?

4. Tell the parents that the child cannot attend a Sunday School Class?

What is the responsibility of parents of other children in this situation? Don't the parents (and the church leaders) have a responsibility to protect their children from this influence, particularily in church.

I suspect that many Parents will leave the church if this situation is forced on them.
Or tell their children not to associate with this child.

 

How would anyone even know?

 

Don't be distracted by emotional arguments over matters of opinion. What matters is the unchanging standard of God.

 

Then you do not get vaccinated against disease?

If you abhor the mind of man and the scientific method, why do you use a computer?

 

And Mr. Perry, I will add, that you are demonstrating a self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude. I would not attend a church filled with such people. Ever.

 

Young people talk about such things in private in the absence of adults. The effect on other young people should not be underestimated. Go to Sunday School class and learn the "good things" about sex changes from other classmates?

If I were a parent and the leaders of the church did not tell me about my children being exposed to such a situation, I would feel betrayed by the church.

 

Wow. Right out of the box we get the most(( poisionous )) response imaginable

The pharasees would be so pleased

Magnetic poles then posted...

Agree completly

 

Amazing!

And I thought there was very little left that could revoke that response from me. Especially in view of how far into sin today's world has fallen. Society uplifts the sinner and spits upon anyone and anything that's contrary to the devil's devices.

#1 "hanging out with those despised by the world".

Yes, Jesus chose sinners to be his disciples. He didn't have any other choice, as all men are sinners. With one exception, and we know the reason for that exception, His disciples were repentant of their sins. And, no, they were not perfect, as Jesus is the only man without sin to walk on this earth.

However, to imply that Jesus was "hanging out" with unrepentent men practicing abominations to God is wrong. To imply that an assembly of believers (earthly church) should accept knowingly unrepentent MEMBERS is wrong. To say otherwise is to say that a church should accept for membership practicing rapists, murderers, child molesters, pimps, porn stars, drug dealers and anyone else satan sends to defile His church.

Yes, we have the great commission to reach out to those and others who are lost. Does that commission including joining with them and approving of their sinful ways?

#2 "the gospel message is not important enough to have someone where they might hear it."

The membership of an assembly of professing Christians should only be those who are members of the one true Church - His Church. If I understand scriptures correctly, those members are to GUT to the world to share the gospel with the lost.

Jesus WENT OUT to take His message. He didn't choose a building or a hilltop, sit there, and ask people to come to that spot. For His last meal on earth, who did He have around him to share in that meal? Who made up that "congregation"? We have a vivid example of what happened when just one member of that congregation was an unrepentent sinner.

Yet, according to some, we are to invite the unrepentent into fellowship with those in the body of Christ.

Call me whatever you will. That's your priviledge. While I'll invite anyone I meet to visit our church, to hear the gospel, I cannot vote for membership of our church anyone who continues to practice abominations according to God's word.

Disagree? That's fine.

Closing question. Would you approve for membership in your congregation and have fellowship with a known and practicing child molester?

 

To equate someone with a medical abnormality with someone who molests children is preposterous.