Death Panels

LadyEagle · Jun 25, 2012

People have Living Wills (Healthcare Directives) for a reason. You can specify that you do not want heroic measures (meaning life support) if that is your wish. You can thus free your family of making a decision to "pull the plug."

But that is a decision which should be left between patient and doctor without government intervention.

Crabtownboy · Jun 25, 2012

Bro. Curtis said: ↑

Start another thread to show all of us mean conservativesw all the people the insurance companies have killed.

Until then you are blowing smoke. But we're used to that.
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No need to start a new thread. Here are a few examples of the insurance company death panels at work:

Here is a look at a handful of healthcare horror stories, brought to you by the current system. It took Salon staff less than an hour to round these up — which might indicate how many other such stories are out there.

– In June 2008, Robin Beaton, a retired nurse from Waxahachie, Texas, found out she had breast cancer and needed a double mastectomy. Two days before her surgery, her insurance company, Blue Cross, flagged her chart and told the hospital they wouldn’t allow the procedure to go forward until they finished an examination of five years of her medical history — which could take three months. It turned out that a month before the cancer diagnosis, Beaton had gone to a dermatologist for acne treatment, and Blue Cross incorrectly interpreted a word on her chart to mean that the acne was precancerous.

Not long into the investigation, the insurer canceled her policy. Beaton, they said, had listed her weight incorrectly when she bought it, and had also failed to disclose that she’d once taken medicine for a heart condition — which she hadn’t been taking at the time she filled out the application. By October, thanks to an intervention from her member of Congress, Blue Cross reinstated Beaton’s insurance coverage. But the tumor she had removed had grown 2 centimeters in the meantime, and she had to have her lymph nodes removed as well as her breasts amputated because of the delay.

– In October 2008, Michael Napientak, a doorman from Clarendon Hills, Ill., went to the hospital for surgery to relieve agonizing back pain. His wife’s employer’s insurance provider, a subsidiary of UnitedHealthCare, had issued a pre-authorization for the operation. The operation went well. But in April, the insurer started sending notices that it wouldn’t pay for the surgery, after all; the family, not the insurance provider, would be on the hook for the $148,000 the hospital charged for the procedure. Pre-authorization, the insurance company explained, didn’t necessarily guarantee payment on a claim would be forthcoming. The company offered shifting explanations for why it wouldn’t pay — first, demanding proof that Napientak had tried less expensive measures to relieve his pain, and then, when he provided it, insisting that it lacked documentation for why the surgery was medically necessary. Napientak’s wife, Sandie, asked her boss to help out, but with no luck. Fortunately for the Napientaks, they were able to attract the attention of a Chicago Tribune columnist before they had to figure out how to pay the six-figure bill — once the newspaper started asking questions, the insurer suddenly decided, “based on additional information submitted,” to cover the tab, after all.

– David Denney was less than a year old when he was diagnosed in 1995 with glutaric acidemia Type 1, a rare blood disorder that left him severely brain damaged and unable to eat, walk or speak without assistance. For more than a decade, Blue Cross of California — his parents’ insurance company — paid the $1,200 weekly cost to have a nurse care for him, giving him exercise and administering anti-seizure medication.

But in March 2006, Blue Cross told the Denney family their claims had exceeded the annual cost limit for his care. When they wrote back, objecting and pointing out that their annual limit was higher, the company changed its mind — about the reason for the denial. The nurse’s services weren’t medically necessary, the insurers said. His family sued, and the case went to arbitration, as their policy allowed. California taxpayers, meanwhile, got stuck with the bill — after years of paying their own premiums, the Denney family went on Medi-Cal, the state’s Medicaid system.

– Patricia Reilling opened an art gallery in Louisville, Ky., in 1987, and three years later took out an insurance policy for herself and her employees. Her insurance provider, Anthem Health Plans of Kentucky, wrote to her this June, telling her it was canceling her coverage — a few days after it sent her a different letter detailing the rates to renew for another year and billing her for July.

Reilling thinks she knows the reason for the cutoff, though — she was diagnosed with breast cancer in March 2008. That kicked off a year-long battle with Anthem. First the company refused to pay for an MRI to locate the tumors, saying her family medical history didn’t indicate she was likely to have cancer. Eventually, it approved the MRI, but only after she’d undergone an additional, painful biopsy. Her doctor removed both of her breasts in April 2008. In December, she went in for reconstructive plastic surgery — and contracted a case of MRSA, an invasive infection. In January of this year, Reilling underwent two more surgeries to deal with the MRSA infection, and she’s likely to require another operation to help fix all the damage. The monthly bill for her prescription medicines — which she says are mostly generics — is $2,000; the doctors treating her for the MRSA infection want $280 for each appointment, now that she’s lost her insurance coverage. When she appealed the decision to cancel her policy, asking if she could keep paying the premium and continue coverage until her current course of treatment ends, the insurers wrote back with yet another denial. But they did say they hoped her health improved.
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Do you want more information/examples?

LadyEagle · Jun 25, 2012

And if you believe government run healthcare will be better, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.

Crabtownboy · Jun 25, 2012

LadyEagle said: ↑

And if you believe government run healthcare will be better, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you.
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My experience with the VA health care system is better than those folks experience with insurance companies. Also my experience with Medicare is also better than what those folks experienced. The VA and Medicare are both government run programs.

If you believe the insurance companies are really interested in paying for your health care I know another bridge I will sell you. :wavey:

righteousdude2 · Jun 25, 2012

You NEVER Cease to Amaze Me...

billwald said: ↑

I challenge you all to suggest an alternative solution. Is the government or insurance companies obligated to keep every person alive as long as it is technically possible? If not, what is a "moral" cut off point?

My Old Man "cost" Medicare and AT&T more in his last two years than he grossed in 25 years. Was this "fair" and does every person "deserve" similar pay back?
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...once again, you demonstrate a moral callousness towards life. I have to wonder if billwald is a real, living, breathing person, or just a computer that is responding to the comments and posts here on the forum? :tear::tear::tear:

Then again, you live in the northwest, and folks up, there are subject to longer days, longer nights, tons of rain and some very cold weather. So, you may be a product of your environment!

HankD · Jun 26, 2012

OK, after reading the posts after my rant, maybe the phrase I used: - "pull the plug" - is not the best as it gives somewhat of a wrong impression.

Keeping someone alive artificially with 21st century machines and technology is one thing (and even the morality of concept that needs to be addressed).

Also, if someone is not insured and/or doesn't have the resource for an artificial organ to continue on living what can an indivdual do but wait for the inevitable.

Assisted suicide ("aka death with dignity") is another thing altogether.

The current thought being why not off them now and minimize the costs of making them comfortable and caring for them before they die thereby reducing costs for everyone.

IMO, this is a wrong whether Christian or not.

HankD

Bro. Curtis · Jun 26, 2012

Crabtownboy said: ↑

No need to start a new thread. Here are a few examples of the insurance company death panels at work:

Do you want more information/examples?
Click to expand...

Did any of these people die because treatment was refused ?

billwald · Jun 26, 2012

The Wife has been a member of Group Health for 40 years and is very happy with their system. GH is the oldest health co-op

http://www.ghc.org/

billwald · Jun 26, 2012

>Assisted suicide ("aka death with dignity") is another thing altogether.

Agree. People who want to die should not try to spread the responsibility for their choice.

carpro · Jun 26, 2012

Crabtownboy said: ↑

No need to start a new thread. Here are a few examples of the insurance company death panels at work:

Do you want more information/examples?
Click to expand...

Oh , horrors!!!

Would you like a few hundred examples of Britons that actually died because the English death panel (after which Obamacare death panel is patterned) either wouldn't allow treatment or delayed it long enough for the illness to be fatal?

Actually you've reinforced the case in favor of private insurance. All your examples had a way to their grievances.

Who do you talk to after the government kills your mother because she's 80 and statistics show that treatment would only prolong her life 2 years, so no dice. Just keep her comfortable until she dies. In about 60 days.

Death Panels

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