Death Penalty for Children?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Dec 4, 2004.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    We may have discussed a similar topic in the not to distant past.

    This came up in a new thread.

    Should a 12 year old child receive the death penalty if he murders an eight year old?
     
  2. rivers1222

    rivers1222
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    Although I am fairly conservative in my views and I do support capitol punishment, I have a problem with this. I cant even go by the old "it depends on the situation" stipend. Maturity and resonsibility are arrived at different ages for different people. In my state they believe you are mature enough to drive at 15, marry at 16, join the service at 18, even have a beer at 21. These decisions are arrived at arbitrarily by politicians with little logic behind them. However even I am in agreement with the powers that be that at the age of 12, when cleaning your room without being threatened, is an act of maturity, cannot be equated with capital punishment. However if it were my eight year old that was the victim.....ah ...forget it...no winners here C4K. Just a sad situation
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    To quote me from another thread (I honestly opted to copy and paste it here:

    Click here for link


    Joseph Botwinick

    Edited to shorten link ONLY

    [ December 04, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  4. dianetavegia

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    In the case Joseph is speaking of, a 12 year old boy in my town killed an 8 year old neighbor girl for no reason. Based on their sizes, he had to squeeze her neck with 2 hands for more than 2 minutes after she lost consciousness (according to doctors). He drug her body into the tall grass in their trailer park and later helped hunt for her, guiding her father to where the body was. If he were only a few days older, he'd be eligible for the death penalty but in Georgia one must be 12 years 40 days old for that.

    He just wanted to was his excuse. (She was NOT sexually assaulted)

    The 8 year old was an A student, a Cheerleader for her school and very active in her Baptist church. She was well liked by everyone and had never been in trouble. The boy was no longer allowed in public school because of repeated problems.
     
  5. Bartimaeus

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    The real criminal to be held liable for the death of the 8 year old is the parents of the 12 year old. They trained him and released him on the public. In this case you don't shoot the "rotwieler", you just go after the owners who are accountable right?
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Nope. As much as you would like to blame society or his mommy and daddy for him being a murderer, he is the one who put his hands around the girl's neck and murdered her, not his parents. Some kids are just evil and it has nothing to do with their parents. I know it is not common, but there are good parents out there who have evil kids. Unless you can prove that his parents sent him over there to kill that girl, they should not carry any guilt whatsoever. BTW, I would shoot the rotwieler, and not the owners.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. dianetavegia

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    If he'd smashed the windows on her daddy's truck, they'd be held responsible... but for her death...
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    If you can prove that they raised him to be a murderer, then they might bear some legal responsibility. However, that would still not alleviate his responsibility either. If say, a rotwieller owner trained the dog to be aggressive and it attacked my son and killed him, I would shoot the dog and charge the owners with negligence. Either way, the dog would die.

    Even if the parents taught him to be this way, he is the one who committed the crime and he is the one who should die.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Bartimaeus

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    Bro Joseph,
    You don't have to train a roty to be mean in every case. All you have to do is chain him and not let anyone else around him and he will be naturally aggressive. Now...you stipulated that it would have to be proven that the parents trained a murderer. You know better than that. Murder is natural in the heart of man, left alone and encouraged by TV or other stimuli the child shows his natural self. A parent will go to jail in most states where a child does not go to school. I have personally heard judges say that to them. Parents have "some" responsibility for the actions of their children. Why not in this case?
    Thanks -------Bart
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Bart,

    Can you prove to me that these parents were negligent in the way they raised their children? If not, then they bear no legal responsibility for his crime. But, even if they were, I would still vote to put him to death because he is still responsible for what he did. Further, I also noted that, although rare, there are some parents who do everything they can and are wonderful parents who end up with evil kids and it is not their fault. Either way, it really matters not to me. Just like the dog, even if the owners are partly responsible, I am still going to shoot the dog.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    One more point to add: Isn't it interesting how many kids grow up in poverty, with no dad, watching hours and hours of tv who never go and commit murder? How far can we really generalize this? I had a friend once who was raised in an abusive family and went on to break the chains of abuse and violence and never commit a crime. On the other hand, I had another friend who was raised by Godly, loving parents who raised their child in church, and that child went on to commit horrible crimes which I will not go into. Sometimes, it is not the parent's fault.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Bartimaeus

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    I am sure that this kid did not just get up one morning, eat his cherio's and go kill his neighbor. I do not know the case but I could probably bank on the fact that there were prior warning signals that were not acted on or there was a prior diliquency problem. In which case the parents had to have been warned. I am not saying that the kid should not pay for the crime. I am saying that there is shared responsibility.
    Thanks -------Bart (I love roty's BTW)
     
  13. Bartimaeus

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    You said the "child went on" you mean to adulthood and committed horrible crimes right?
    I have never heard of a child who is being raised by Godly, loving parents and commit murder while still a child. (You would have to agree it would be the abnormal not the norm at least)
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  14. KenH

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    Genesis 9:5-6 (ESV)
    [5]And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

    [6] "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
    by man shall his blood be shed,
    for God made man in his own image.

    This is before the Law of Moses. I see no age stipulation on the requirement for a reckoning.
     
  15. Bartimaeus

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    No problem Bro Joseph and KenH with giving the kid the old green needle, but the Book also says something about letting your BEAST out that takes a life also. This kid was a beast and they parents should be dealt with.
    Thanks -----Bart (shooting BTW is wrong, the kid should hang and it should be piped into every juvvy clinic and public school room in America)
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    You said the "child went on" you mean to adulthood and committed horrible crimes right?
    I have never heard of a child who is being raised by Godly, loving parents and commit murder while still a child. (You would have to agree it would be the abnormal not the norm at least)
    Thanks ------Bart
    </font>[/QUOTE]He committed these crimes as an adult.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Did I misunderstand you when you made this statement earlier:

    It seems to me that you think the owners / parents should bear all the responsibility and the rot / Child should get off free. Would you like to clarify or change your position?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Bartimaeus

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    To clarify, I was thinking more than I was saying. In today's society children are protected society above and beyong all else, (seniors for instance) so I was just offering an alternative. Plus what I do believe was posted above, sorry to mislead you like that. I do like to see you post so quickly, maybe it got your goat a little, Ha Ha!
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Interesting. Is that your goal? To get my goat, Ha Ha?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    There is a big difference between not executing a child and letting him go free.

    I am a strong supporter of the death penalty, but not for a 12 year old.
     

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