Debating the undebatable

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by music4Him, Apr 25, 2004.

  1. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Well you must of thought this would be interesting or you wouldn't be here. :D
    First I would like to say Thank you Baptist Board! I have learned so much from the Baptist Board from the time that I joined till now. (That was 2 months 18 days ago)Whew! **music4Him wipeing the sweat off the brow** LOL [​IMG]

    One thing I learned is there are some topics that are undebatable. Or in some situations there is two sides (some times even 3 sides, i.e. top bottom and middle) to a penny. If we could have a list of the undebatable debates that would be unfruitful for topic starters for new members would that be a good thing?

    I don't want to have debate of what members list as undebatable. I like healthy debates and would like veiws of diferent demominations on the taboos of the debates.(since I haven't been here that long and found out that there was more denoms that I don't know much about.) I have been to "Way of the Master" website and they don't have too much on the all the red herrings of Christian debates.

    How about it? What are the red herrings.....the places where the bible is silent....the debates that end with no answers or stale-mate, or even the debates that didn't have replies in the past?

    Please no name calling, lets keep it healthy and freindly. (FYI, add smilies so that others will know you are being friendly.) [​IMG]
    If there is a denomination that you are not associated with, (but to the others belonging to that denomination).....if something that is mentioned about a denomination that is in error.......please clarify it with tact and don't get offended, but explain politely and respectable to other posters. [​IMG]

    If this kind of topic is not permitted here on the Baptist Board please accept my apologies. But you have to admit it would be nice to have a list sometimes of whats not debatable.
    [​IMG] :eek: ;)

    In all sincerity,
    Music4Him
     
  2. Salty

    Salty
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    In the Old Testament God instructed Iseral to wage war aginst certain enemys.
    Is the New Testment silent about War? Is it permissable or are the Quakers and Ana-baptist correct in refusing Military Service
     
  3. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Here is an example of what I am saying.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    7th day sabbath vs Sunday sabbath

    Some examples, scripture, and/or references presented about the sabbath debate:

    *1st example for 7th day Sabbath
    Genesis 2:3 (creation) God blessed and santified the sabbath.
    Exodus 20:8-11 (comandments) Remember the sabbath.
    New Testament scriptures where Jesus kept the sabbath (using Jesus as our example).

    *2nd example (the other side of the coin) Sunday sabbath
    New Tesament scripture of the 4 Gospels where Jesus arose on the 1st day of the week (Sunday) being called the Lords day ~ergo sabbath changed to Sunday.
    *Non bibical referance...to that could be Consantine(sp?) changing it to Sunday. Then agian this would also apply to the 1st example above for the seventh day sabbath that was given.

    *3rd example (3rd side of the coin) keep the sabbath one day out of Seven. (pick a day any day)


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Now as you can see I didn't put all the scripture references (pro or anti 7th day sabbath) just a few. Just the ones that have mostly stuck out in a debate that I remember off the top of my head. [​IMG] I also didn't go into #3 because I never concidered it bibically so I didn't look for the scripture to prove or disprove this area. [​IMG]

    Music4Him
     
  4. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Where is this undebatable?
    In the OT God did instruct Israel to fight certian enemies. (Good vs Evil)
    In the NT there is more mentioned about war with good and evil also.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    When you say is it allowed or permitted is this to do with the Quakers or Ana-Baptist being correct in refusing Military service? :confused:

    Can you present this using this in the example post I posted on the sabbath?

    Thank you for your post [​IMG]
    Music4Him
     
  5. Audra

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    music4him: did you check out the topic on resurrection? You might change your view on Christ rising on Sunday.
     
  6. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Audra thanks for the heads up on the resurection thread. ~ [​IMG]
    LOL Well if thats the case then the penny has 4 sides and I'll stand corrected. ;) [​IMG]

    Music4Him [​IMG]
     
  7. DHK

    DHK
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    There is no topic in the Bible that is undebatable. There are many topics that people do not wish to discuss for various reasons, sometimes because they are unwilling to learn. Their mind is already made up not to learn. Therefore the subject becomes undebatable to them. "A man convinced agains his will is of the same opinion still."
    DHK
     
  8. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Where did you get that quote from DHK?
    "A man convinced agains his will is of the same opinion still."

    It might be undebatable? Concidering what the definition is for debate. [​IMG]

    debate- to concider, to dicuss opposing reasons; argue, to argue a question (a question) formally, to concider reason for or aginst.....ect.
    un- as in undebatable meaning "not debatable" lack of debate (or lack of information to debate), the oppisite of debate.

    Thank you fo your input~ [​IMG]
    Music4Him

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    Has there ever been a BB thread or even a disscussion in your family or with other christians, that seemed to be sound doctrine presented from all sides? Or have all ened in a heated free for all which would make it "taboo" to bring up as a topic?
     
  9. Gina B

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    Yes there has been topics which became too heated and are not allowed on the board. These are easily figured out by looking at the posting rules and reading the agreement one agrees to when joining.

    As far as topics for which there are no clear lines drawn most are issues such as KJVO, pants on women, make-up, length of hair, and other such topics that people have a tendency to take a passionate stance on and divide good churches over because they won't accept anyone else's view but their own as valid on the particular issue.
    Gina
     
  10. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Thanks Gina for the info. [​IMG] I have read the rules and agreement, but I have seen post from some talking about and with different beliefs than I have no idea what all their beliefs are about or that there was so many different denoms with differnt church rules.... (i.e. Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Full preterist, Ana-Baptist, Quakers, 7th day adventist....ect.) but I have seen where some one has posted and gotten chewed out for sharing their 2 cents and that is sad because it might be a chance to interject and share a new idea with them instead of running them off. :(

    This is why I would like the info on the red herrings, and undebatable topics, surly there has to be a scripture that can bridge the gap? I know in one thread I can agree with a member and their doctrine then I can go to another thread and the same person can post something that don't make any since. (Sometimes this has happened on the same thread too.) Alot of debates that I had with others have also gotten ugly. I just thought this would be a easy way to "share" about debates that don't have a nutral zone, without it being debated.

    See I had no idea that pants on women, make-up, length of hair have a tendency to divide churches? :eek:

    Thanks, [​IMG]
    Music4Him
     
  11. DHK

    DHK
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    It's an idiom that's been around for sometime; similar to:
    "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
    In any debate: one can only present so much evidence. At some point it becomes fruitless if there is an obvious refusal to learn, or a rejection of the truth.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    Like Gina mentioned there are first:
    Topics which cannot be discussed for common sense purposes--sexual topics in a public forum on a Christian board open to children, for example, is not appropriate.
    Second, there are many that can be discussed, but that do generate passion. You have already seen that on this forum, and can see it clearly on these forums: music, Bible versions, Calvinism/Arminianism, just for starters. Just within our "Other Religions" forum alone there are many different topics which generate a lot of "passion:" all the way from: tongues, healing, the spiritual gifts, to Catholicism, headcoverings, and even doctrines such as the trinity. We are passionate about what we believe, and that in itself is not a bad thing. Any thing that is in the Bible ought to be able to be debated or discussed from the Bible.

    As far as my own family is concerned, there is nothing that I cannot discuss with my wife, unless it is something that is held in confidence by me as a pastor of a church, who has the confidence of other members or of anyone that would need counselling.
    DHK
     
  12. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd
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    I suppose we could debate the meaning of :

    Babicostlesabbathholy

    But you will have to start the debate! :rolleyes:
     
  13. music4Him

    music4Him
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    [​IMG]
    Oh thats a easy debate Todd! And so big of you to bring that out. You know how everyone can be so "proud" of their "religious tags" that they put on themselfs?
    So if everyone must know....here is why I chose the "tag" Babicostlesabbathholy. [​IMG]

    I hold to most of the Baptist teachings because I was raised a Baptist (ergo the Bapi part of my tag)...except for thier beliefs to when the subject of the pentacost and the 9 gifts of the Spirit come in (I happen to belive in all 9 of the gifts of the Spirit and that they are for today as they was when Paul told of them) so concidering that I also belive in Pentacostal beliefs due to the power of the Holy Ghost ergo the costle part....then I have sabbathholy as to mean keep the sabbath and keep it holy. Thats all Babicostlesabbathholy is about. [​IMG] Now if their is any Babtist that have these same beliefs let me know.

    BTW, Dan latley all I seen are people posting words or a full post in the debate fourms that seem to be ment to hurt others and seem to be unfruitful as far as debate goes. If your question/post wasn't ment to be mean in no way, shape, or form of being an attack or to be hurtful, then my apologies Sir.

    But If anyone will look at any of the post in other debates and how some are being jumped on (for lack of better words) then maybe you could understand the serious part as to why I posted this topic of the debating the undebatable. :( For some reason I thought maybe some of the lurkers might join in the debates if people was a bit more informed and persented thier points a bit more tactful?
    In short all I wanted was a way to get a healthy debate like there used to be without the insults to others beliefs. Present your point then let the other present theirs. If something seems to be in error then check your position first and reserch it, then if you are convinced your scripture holds the truth then reply with your new found information and without insults or comments meaning to degrade others. In other words take the beam out of your own eye first then debate (i.e.share your veiw). Can it be possible? Surly no one really likes the "strife" that is stirred in some of these debates that are red herrings, rabbit trailed, and unfruitful because someone will say something to offend on purpose that usually gets others off the topic? Maybe this is the wrong place to post this? The more I type the more it looks like it ought to go post this in greivances part of the BB. Where is it located? :eek:

    Thank you,
    Music4Him
     
  14. Dan Todd

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    I guessed as much about your religious affiliation!

    I usually do not post mean things intentionally! Although I tease people big time - most have gotten use to my warped sense of humor - but on occassion - I have to apologize!

    My only question now on Babicostlesabbathholy is the sabbathholy part. Are you using sabbath in the "Christian Sabboth" sense - meaning Sunday, or do you worship on Saturday - the real Sabboth?

    Dan

    PS - I'm not sure that I've found a grievance thread (as such) on BB!
     
  15. music4Him

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    Thanks Dan,
    I too have a sense of humor... or atleast I would like to think I do? :D

    I keep Friday evening to Saturday evening as my Sabbath (Texan for Sabboth) day of rest. There are no churches anywhere that I have found in my area that do all that I posted above about the Babicostlesabbathholy? Until then I usually go to a neighbors and worship when possible or at home. But,I also go to church on Wednesdays & Sundays when my husband has the day off. Depending on time and gas prices we visit a Babtist church or a Full Gospel church or a non-denoninational, where the bible is being preached.

    Music4Him

    What??? No grievance board????? :eek: You mean people have to accually start a thread like this to debate on how to to stand or step down or gracfully fall off soap boxes? [​IMG]
     
  16. BobRyan

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    This used to be debated among Christians - but nowdays there is almost no one left that will debate in favor of "Sunday is the Sabbath of the fourth commandment".

    Rather - the 4th commandment is the 7th day Sabbath (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset). Then all can agree that when Christ is risen on the FIRST day that is in the SAME 7 day cycle as we have Sabbath - so that has to be Sunday.

    The question is NOT which day is the Sabbath.

    The question/debate is "can I ignore God's Sabbath AND cling to a tradition for keeping Sunday on a weekly basis -- or not".

    And of course a lot of arguments are added showing why a Sunday tradition might be a good idea and why ignoring the Creator's 7th-day memorial of His creative act in making the World - might be a good thing to do.

    This part has been debated here - so I would not call it "undebatable"

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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