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Decisional JUSTIFICATION - Sovereign SANCTIFICATION

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Well, Praise GOD!!! At least someone can inject some good sense into this discussion!

    skypair
     
  2. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Nor does the Bible teach that the 'elect' never resist the gospel or grace of God.

    How, in your opinion, does an 'elect' person resist grace? Was God's grace then "ineffectual?" How many times did YOU resist grace and the gospel? Or are you saying that you and every other 'elect' person you know of were saved the instant they heard the gospel? Does resisting grace indicate that the one who does so, even once, is condemned to reprobation?

    And BTW, "effectual calling" is NOT a biblical doctrine. It is a Calvinist doctrine. Please don't get the 2 confused. There is NO phrase "effectual calling" in scripture, PL.

    skypair
     
  3. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    RB,

    Well, it ain't true! Just like "irresistible grace," it was "reverse engineered" and then "shoe-horned" into a theology that already existed without the fancy terminology.

    Ya see, the Pharisees thought they were "elect" and "chosen," too. They believed everything that "Moses and the prophets" taught and they were, after all, the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. What did THEY do to be chosen? Nothing! And they even had their own set of "Lordship" rules -- 613 of them that the called the Talmud, I believe. Weren't they surprised when Jesus showed up!! :saint:

    I hate to get sarcastic like this but the Pharisees didn't understand what they read in scripture either. They were "fakin' it." God's Spirit had long since left their temple, Ezek 8-9. Their "truth" and faith was of their own invention.

    Wake up, RB! Unless you are reconciled to God in Christ (JUSTIFIED by your own choosing), all the sanctification and all the discipleship in the world is not going to save you! You and your buddies been "fishin' around" long enough on this issue of "What must we do?!" You must be JUSTIFIED with God and He will give you to Christ and eternal life and Holy Spirit indwelling and new birth ..[personal attack edited]

    skypair
     
    #23 skypair, Sep 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2008
  4. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Your reply is so viral that you have questioned my salvation and had to edit your own personal attacks on me. I think you need to stop and examine your own heart before trying to examine mine.

    The doctrines of God's grace are the doctrines of Holy Scripture.
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    wow, you have much to boast about.

    RB
     
  6. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    "Edit my attacks?" You are imagining things, bro.

    If that is the case, you will have no problem proving it. This thread is about what it takes to be saved. You have said numerous tiimes that you are uncertain as to the "mechanics" of salvation, the ordo saludis, etc. You have told me that there are certain things that God does and certain things that we do but you have not related "cause and effect" so far as I can see.

    Let's start then with "irresistible grace." Where are those words used together in scripture? Or, another term I took exception to, "total depravity." Let's get it out and prove whether it be of scripture or of men, shall we?

    skypair
     
  7. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Skypair,

    I am quite surprised I didn't take notice of this. But now that I have I wanted to reply that this statement is so antichristian and antichrist I can't believe I have read this from a Christian.

    This kind of gospel preaching I personally classify as heresy equal to the errors of Rome, perhaps worse. I classify it as heresy because I see it as being damnable.

    It is utterly man-centered puting the focus of redemption on man on the man himself to make a decision, and even more disgusting, putting the focus of our preaching on decision.

    The center and focus of our preaching brethren must be Christ and Him crucified and the "it" that redeems our soul is NOT our faith. "It" is a He, and He is Jesus Christ alone.

    RB
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I am not imagining things. You wrote:

    Are you saying your words that read "personal attack edited" are not your own?

    RB
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I will show you where those phrases appear in the text of Scripture when you show where the word "Trinity" appears in Scripture.

    RB
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Damnable and heresy are strong words.
    The quote being referred to is this:
    It is no doubt a summary and not the whole.
    If it is receiving Christ that is the focus, then Christ is the object, not man.

    RB, could you please explain very concisely how you would go about leading a soul to Christ. You believe in personal evangelism, don't you?
     
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    My "boast" (glory) is in the Lord who gave himself for me,
    and paid the debt for all my sin to set me free.
    For me he lives; For me he dies,
    And everlasting life and light he freely gives.

    CONSIDER him the author and finisher of our faith....
    I considered. I believed. I was saved.
     
  12. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Faith:
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    Or "free will."
     
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    John 8:36 If therefore the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. (WEB) :)
     
  14. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    We should preach the depravity of man and necessity of repentance and faith in the divine Person and substitutionary work of Jesus Christ for salvation. The Bible commands Gospel preaching.
    One should also understand that God gets the credit for applying His Word and effectually drawing people to Him. The Bible also explains this.
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You are far from answering the question I asked.
    Most people I talk to are Biblically illiterate. The Bible has its own vocabulary, and the unsaved don't have a clue what most of those words mean:
    "depravity, substitutionary, effectual, and even repentance."
    Those are the words you used.

    How would you lead a soul to Christ (witness to him)? Not how would you preach a soul to Christ.
     
  16. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    :laugh: :laugh:

    Nice try though. lol

    RB
     
  17. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping that is not what he meant, but he is usally pretty straightforward about his beliefs. And if that is the case, I see it as a damnable heresy. Why would you question whether or not I believe in "personal evangelism" ?

    Concisely, I follow this example:

    "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21
     
    #37 ReformedBaptist, Sep 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2008
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    DHK,

    You wrote,

    Please understand I am not questioning your faith.

    Why did you consider? Why did you believe? Why are you saved?

    RB
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Pity.God tried;but He wasn't successful.Man's will trumps God's.What a wretched theology.

    In reality God gets the ones He wants -- the ones He has elected from before the foundation of the world.

    Your understanding of 'drawing' is in conflict with the biblical presentation.In the Bible drawing is always toward completion -- toward saving union with Christ.

    "Not saved in spite of the grace of God" is plain wrong,anti-biblical thinking.God's grace,as the Scriptures affirm is greater than your scripturally-challenged view.

    One can be 'under conviction' yet it may not be God's will to save those individuals.The Lord's purposes,ways,thoughts are higher than our own.It may be that the Lord wants them to be under conviction for a time to suffer greater condemnation.
     
  20. Lukasaurus

    Lukasaurus Member

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    Ezr 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

    Lev 22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;

    Lev 22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.

    Lev 22:23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

    Num 15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

    Psa 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Don't give me that rubbish about a sign over Heaven's gate)
     
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