Deeds/Works of the Law

Your post deserves more time than I can give it at the moment (I'm heading out the door). But this first point is easily disproven:

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.​

Clearly, you can have a living spirit in dead physical body. So the question is when does the spiritual death occur?

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.​

 

>Why do you people try and make it so complicated, God explains it all in his Word.God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:1-24 that because of their sin they would have to work for a living, be at war with nature, suffer pain and sickness, and eventually die.

Gen 2:16-18? In one chapter of time God changed the rules? Every dispensation is like lab experiments with rats. One experiment fails, another starts. God will not run out of rats.

 

>Spiritual death and physical death cannot be distinguished from each other but cannot be seperated from each other as the former is the cause and the latter is the effect.

Then explain Gen 3. In the day Adam sinned, he died and then lived several hundred years?

 

"This is clearly seen..." This statement is ridiculous. How can something be "clearly seen" by an unproven, unbiblical, unreferenced, unsubstantiated "fact." You may as well have said "This is clearly seen because of my imagination."

You only dig your own hole deeper. Yes, both men acted as representatives for "many." One lead to justification, one lead to condemnation. The difference is with Adam there was 1 sin to condemnation and in Christ there is justification for many sins.

I reject what you've said because it's unbiblical. You believe, contrary to scripture, that sin is passed from generation to generation all the way back to Adam and original sin. But Romans 5:12 clearly says that it is death that is passed, not sin. This is supported by Ezekiel 18.

The point, my friend, is that IF we all have a sin nature, and IF we all get that sin nature as an inheritance from Adam because sin (not death) is passed, then any covering for Adam's sin would effectively eliminate the sin that was passed, and that sin would cease to be passed because it would have been covered by the blood of Jesus. If Adam's sin were forgiven, then it could no longer be passed. We wouldn't inherit a sin nature (in that faulty point of view) because that sin would have been forgiven. You have - once again - effectively destroyed your entire theological position.

You can't say that Adam's representative sin is passed, and then say that if that representative sin were forgiven, that the redemption would not also be passed. If one is true, the other MUST be true. If Adam's representative sin is passed, then the forgiveness of that sin would also be passed. And if it is true that the forgiveness for Adam's sin is passed, then it destroys the idea that sin is passed, or that we inherit a sin nature from Adam because Adam's representative sin would have been forgiven.

If that's true (which is isn't), then Adam's sin would cease to be representative as well. Adam committed only 1 sin in his life - he ate the fruit. If this 1 sin was representative, then forgiveness for that 1 sin would also be representative. But Romans 5 says the free gift of grace is for many sins, not 1 sin.

The word MORAL does not appear in either of the passages you listed. Furthermore I see nothing about infants in either passage. You make this up as you go, don't you!

I do find it interesting, however, that 2 Corinthians 3 is all about the two covenants - faith and the law - and effect of righteousness on a person.

Romans 5 doesn't make that distinction. It says "death" it doesn't say "spiritual death". As a matter of fact, if you limit Romans 5 to spiritual death, you may undermine the very gospel itself.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.​

If you believe this context refers only to Christ dying spiritually, then you and I may have far less common footing to stand on that I supposed. Do you believe that Christ's death and resurrection was only spiritual and that he didn't die physically? Do you believe he only spilled spiritual blood for us?

So you think that Adam died spiritually prior to being judged by God, prior to God pronouncing the curse? I wonder how he spoke with God in the garden if he was spiritually dead when God asked him where he was and why he was hiding.

All have sinned means each individual has committed his own sin. It doesn't mean that we all committed Adam's sin.

The onus is upon you to produce scripture to substantiate your claim that says that the sin nature is passed. Furthermore it is upon you to substantiate your implication that sin is passed through the father's genes.

 

Um... yes that is how I interpret it because that is exactly what it says.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.​

Christ is "in" our heart, our spirit.

Romans 7-8 gives us the reasoning:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.​

So here we see Paul says that in his flesh dwells no good thing. Since Christ is a good thing, I'm going to assume that Christ doesn't live in his flesh. Paul affirms however that the will to do good is in him, but just not in his flesh.

Paul describes this struggle between his flesh and his spirit. That his spirit wants him to do good, but his flesh does that which is not good. He says it isn't "him" who does it, but rather it is "sin in him".

Some might think this is the "devil made me do it" excuse. But it isn't. Paul isn't saying "it's not me, it's the devil." Paul is saying "It's not me, it's me." Paul is recognizing the duality that now exists within him. He continues on to describe this duality:

Rom 8:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​

Paul describes a war within himself between good and evil... between sin and Christ. And the battleground is his mind. Notice when Paul says "it's not me, it's me". He identifies his "true" self as the person he is in the spirit, rather than the person he is in the flesh. Then he says "with his mind" he serves God and with his flesh he serves sin. He identifies himself as who he is in Christ. He sees that as his true self.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

Here Paul describes the liberty he has in Christ, being free from the law of sin and death because Christ lives within him. He has this liberty because he walks in the spirit, rather than the flesh. According to the previous verses, (as well as the verses to follow) he does this by setting his mind on the things of the spirit rather than the things of the flesh.

It also says God condemned sin to die with the flesh. Christ lives in his spirit, so his spirit is alive. But his body (his flesh) is still dead. God has banished sin and death from his spirit, and confined it in his flesh. He has done this so that the law (which says a sinner must die) can be fulfilled in us by the death of our flesh, but we can continue and remain alive with Christ because of the righteousness we've obtained by grace through faith.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.​

Do you not know that we must die to fulfill the law? Do you not know that we will have new, uncorrupted bodies in heaven?

2Cr 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight​

As we can see from verse 6, the "home" or "house" or "tabernacle" that it speaks of is our human body. Looking at the context in verse 4 we see:

2Cr 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,
18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.​

 

Your posts contain no scriptural basis and are merely your own opinions. Your unsubstantiated opinions have little to no truth. Why on earth would I want to reacquaint myself with your false beliefs? Do you have something to say that you can substantiate with scripture, or are you simply unable to back up what you say with God's Word?

You have commited to a Calvanistic worldview and so you aren't looking at this objectively. I don't know why you've committed to this view rather than to God and His scripture - but whatever the reason may be for you, Biblicist, there is no way you can rationalize Romans 5:12 to say sin is passed when it clearly says death is passed. This is why your attempts to do so have all met with failure.

 

2Cr 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.​

The scripture says that "dying you shall surly die." Meaning that physical death is a process of decay.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:​

This was after sin and after God cursed Adam & Eve and the whole earth. It shows the process of death had already begun.

 

Wishing it to be true doesn't make it true.

The word for "be dead" in Romans 5:15 is apothnēskō. This Greek word denotes natural death, not spiritual death. If they wanted to use a word that can mean spiritually dead he would have used the Greek word nekros.