Defending some of C.H. Spurgeon's doctrine

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    On another thread dealing with Purgatory this came up

    you can't turn every topic into your own personal war against the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - The Bible on this topic - C.H. Spurgeon, "the Westminster Confession of Faith", R.C. Sproul, D.L. Moody -- all of whom strongly support the Isaiah 66:23 and Mark 2:27 Bible doctrine on the TEN Commandments (all ten) still applicable to all mankind. 1 Corinthians 7:19 Ephesians 6:2.

    so then to help out -- I am starting this thread.

    Spurgeon believed that the Bible has 66 books in it - OT and NT. --- I agree -- and so do many others on this board.

    But that does not mean I agree with every teaching that Spurgeon said/taught/published/believed..

    Among the places where I differ with some folks on this particular board - is in my agreement with C.H. Spurgeon's endorsement of Bible doctrine in section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith". This is an area where Spurgeon and Moody and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (also section 19 of that CoF as well) are in clear agreement.

    And I agree with their statement at the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God applicable to all the saints in both OT and NT.

    All ten. Not just nine.

    So let's read that
     
    #1 BobRyan, Jul 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19

    Section 19:

    C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
    -- CH Spurgeon


    The Perpetuity of the Law of God

    Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

    Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

    Section 19
    . The Law of God
    • God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

    • The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

    • Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

    • To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

    The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    now when I say that D.L. Moody apparently agreed with C.H. Spurgeon on the Ten Commandments included in the moral law of God applicable to all the saints to this very day -- here is an example of it.

    ========================================
    D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

    http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

    BY THE
    DWIGHT L. MOODY
    The Ten Commandments:
    Exodus 20:2-17
    .

    The Fourth Commandment


    Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

    THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

    I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
    "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
    It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was
    - in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

    The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai.
    How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

    I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;
     
  4. BobRyan

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    So also does the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - section 19 also show apparent agreement with Spurgeon's "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 - on the Bible fact that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God.

    =============================================

    Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19
    "Westminster Confession of Faith"
    Chapter XIX
    Of the Law of God
    I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

    II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
    III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

    IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

    V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
    VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

    VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

    Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Even Catholic documents like Dies Domini and the CCC agree with the TEN commandments (all TEN) being applicable to the saints to this very day.

    But they would all like to think that those commandments can be "bent" in some way so that the Sabbath Commandment now points to week-day-1.

    On That point -- I differ with them.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    There are in general 7 statements they are making about the Ten Commandments as being included in what they call the 'moral law of God' -

    6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


    1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
    2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
    3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
    4. That the Ten Commandments are included in the moral Law of God
    5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
    6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
    7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

    I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above.

    And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.
     
  7. Smyth

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    I don't think the Sabbath can be bent, nor do I think any of the Old Testament laws have expired. The issue is how the Bible tells us to follow them. We keep the Sabbath by being Christian (Hebrews 4). We keep the ceremonial law by being Christian (all things made clean). We keep the sacrificial law by being Christian (Jesus, our sacrifice).
     
  8. BobRyan

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    This is pretty reasonable - but there are few details that I would suggest.

    All the pro-Sunday sources I quoted - admit in their document that the animal sacrifices and ceremonies ended at the cross.

    Hebrews 10 says of those animal sacrifices "He takes a way the first to establish the second."

    So the argument today is not that we are bringing in our sheep and goats for slaughter each day because we are Christians - rather the argument is the Hebrews 10:1-4 argument that animal blood never had the power to forgive sin - not even in the OT.

    Only the blood of Christ can pay the debt owed -- and Hebrews 10 makes that clear. Thus in the OT form of "sacrifice for sin" was merely a shadow pointing forward to the sacrifice of Christ

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    Again, NONE of those that you quoted, as being holders to the Confessions of the faith/reformed baptists , would agree with the SDA that Saturdat sabbath keeping is a REQUIREMENT that God demnds in order to have be saved...

    They all would view the law as binding unto Christians still in the sense of what is seen as being right/wrong today, but that would only be the moral aspects of the law, as ALL other aspects were fulfilled in jesus at the Cross, and so we are not under the law as regarding Sabbath saturday as Isreal was...

    Would they see us as being under Sabbath today still then? yes, but as in SUNDAY, and not required to be/kept saved, as the SDA teaches through its false prophetess...
     
  10. BobRyan

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    Amen to that !

    Not text says that Jews kept the Sabbath by being Jews.
    No text says that Christians keep the Sabbath by being Christian.
    The "actual" Sabbath command - as spoken by God Ex 20:8-11 says nothing at all about "Just being a believer is keeping the Sabbath"
    Heb 4:9 says that the Sabbath "REMAINS" as it was in Psalms 96 - in David's day.

    Not according to the actual Bible. In Hebrews 10:4-11 we are told that the law of sacrifices and offers ended.

    A lot of things that people say "sounds nice" until you read the Bible on those subjects.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Those who believe you can live like the devil and still be saved - will of course not argue in favor of not taking God's name in vain or any other commandment as preventing them from heaven.

    Spurgeon was not a member of such groups.
     

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