Define Repentance

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Bro. Curtis, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    Everyone I ask has a different answer. So as far as biblical repentance goes....

    I do believe repentance is required for salvation. To me it means changing your mind about sin, realizing it hurts our relationship with God. But it's hard not to sin, isn't it ? So I don't believe it means don't sin anymore. Maybe try not to sin, or realize what sin does to us, or maybe regret sinning. Sometimes I do stuff I know is wrong. So if I do the same sin I've been doing for years, should I doubt my salvation ? When I do sin, I can feel the battle going on inside, I know it's wrong, but fall anyway. Have I truly repented if I do the same sin over 7 over ? HELP!!!!!

    Anybody....?
     
  2. tyndale1946

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    Mr Curtis said:

    Regeneration is performed by the power of God. It is called a creation ;
    as the child did not perform conditions in its natural birth, he does not in his
    spiritual birth. As Adam was passive in his natural creation, so also is the
    sinner passive in his spiritual begetting and birth. We received capacity to
    understand natural things in our natural birth ; so also in our spiritual birth
    we received capacity to understand spiritual things. Hence one must be born
    of God before he can receive the gospel, for the gospel is a thing of the
    Spirit. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God :
    for they are foolishness unto him ; neither can he know them, because they
    are spiritually discerned."--1 Cor. 2:14... Because you morn over those sins is a good indication you are a child of God. The two fold warfare that all children of God have means you belong to him. If you didn't tell me why would Satan even tempt you? The spirit of God that is within you and all Gods children cannot sin... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 12, 2002, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  3. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    From Easton's:
    It should be noted that even repentance is a gift from God. Man cannot repent of his own power.

    II Tim 2:24 "And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth"

    In most evangelical circles it is believed and taught that man repents, and they are then born again. But the opposite is true: "unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." If man repented and was given eternal life, then man earned his own salvation. But God rebirths the man from above, so that "they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will" (II Tim 2:26) and they then turn to Christ in faith and repentance.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of behavior. It is absolutely necessary for salvation.

    At the risk of stepping into a minefield, Acts 11:15 says that God granted the Gentiles repentance unto life. A case can be made that repentance (and faith) do precede regeneration without compromising depravity or the unilateral work of God. I am an almost five point Calvinist who believes that faith and repentance precede regeneration technically speaking. I believe in Murrays' definition of the Effectual Call when it says it is a divine enablement. Murray apparently believes that there is a need for two divine enablements though since he also defines Regeneration in a similar way. In using generic terms, I have no problem saying that God gives life to bring faith and repentance, but I am unpersuaded that "life" precedes faith and repentance since Scripture seems to indicate otherwise.
     
  5. Bugman

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    Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord"

    Doesn't this imply that repentance must come first? The sins are not removed unless repentance takes place, therefore salvation does not take place unless repentance does.

    Bugman
     
  6. Scott_Bushey

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    Does not God commands all men everywhere to repent. Does He not command men to come, to drink, to eat, to deny self. Christ implores us to "Pick up our cross daily". Why would Christ cry over Jerusalem?
    Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    Why would Christ beckon men and woman to "come unto Him" if they couldn't? You say, None can come unto Him, yet the father give them to the Son". I agree! Yet how does one resolve the two truths in scripture?

    How about the doctrine of apostasy in contrast to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints?
    Let me just say, that I am a believer in the P of the S. I know all that God calls *WILL* come unto Him, and He will lose none. But.........Apostasy is an obvious truth posed in Holy writ. Who do the warnings go out to? The non believer? No, they are warnings to the saved. Why would the Apostle Paul warn believers of falling away if in fact it is impossible? If apostates are non elect within the body of Christ, nothing can hold them from falling away, Christ is not holding them, they will eventually fall away. Non elect are simply, non elect, apostates are believers that are warned from falling away from the faith. It would be a fruitless endeavor to warn non elect from falling away, they had never truly arrived. Hence, there is a truth that is evident from the pages of the Bible.

    In regards to repentance:
    The word repent is used approxiamtely 46 times in scripture. Repentance 26 times. Repented 32 times.
    Of the numerous times it is posed, it is a command to the person or persons to repent, or response to the command, or a descriptive of what repentance is. Why is it in scripture, posed in the manner it is, if in fact men do not play a part in it? I acknowledge, God gives repentance. But one cannot miss the two sides to the coin. They are obvious. You might reply, "It is all of God". You are correct in your assumption, it is. But can you deny, that Man must himself, repent? God does not repent for men. God does however GIVE the gift of grace, the gift of repentance, which brings men to their knees bringing forth the fruit of repentance from that man. The one sided theorum that states that it is all God is erroneous. It is outside of sound orthodoxy. Spurgeon and Calvin believed these same principles. In the judgement, men will be held responsible, not for Adams sin only, but for the fact that they refused to believe, they refused to repent and they refused to come, that they may have life.

    In Him,
    Scott Bushey
     
  7. Daniel David

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    If repentance never happens, then neither did salvation.

    Tyndale1946, I realize you are of the primitive Baptist persuasion, but I believe you are in error. One is justified by faith. This is the argument made by Paul throughout the book of Romans. I believe you have taken one portion of truth and taken it to its logical end without and then working backwards into the other portions. Yes God chooses. Yes Christ died for the elect. Where though does that nullify repentance and faith. You are borderline heresy when you start saying that man is just a bystander. He must exercise faith. How is one saved? By grace through FAITH. How does one exercise faith without having first repented?
     
  8. Christopher

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    I am a Primitive Baptisat, too. We are right. Once you understand that repentance and faith are inseparable graces it isn't hard to understand.

    By His grace, Christopher
     
  9. tyndale1946

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    Preachtheword Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    You will notice in verse eight that ye are saved through faith... What faith is that your faith? Who did the work, you? Not of works, lest any man should boast. Nothing mentioned in these verses applies to anything that you can do for God. In fact it states just the opposite. Its all that God has done for you. How can you repent to get eternal life because thats all man is concerned about satisfying an offended God. How does he know God is offended if he doesn't have eternal life burning in his bosom. Repentence is for the child of God and him only and those that are not his don't care about God... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 12, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  10. Scott_Bushey

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    Tyndale,
    Must man repent before he can be saved? Or does God repent? You have implied God does it all?
    How can this be? THis is as a friend of mine calls it "A house with no windows". Again I state, scripture has two sides to many issues. What about my treatise recently posted on apostasy? Where does perseverance of the saint rest in the light of believers (Mind you, I said believers) apostasizing? Or how about this idea, In the salvific process, God alone saves. As you have ferverently stated....which I agree with, by the way, along with the prophet Jonah, "Salvation is of the Lord". It is God alone doing the miracle. If it is God alone who saves and man has no part (passive as you have implied) how is then man sanctified? By himself? Or does God sanctify? If God sanctifies, is man passive or an active participant? If you say man is an active participant, what in the agenda has changed, why is he now needing to be active in his sanctification? why does he need to do anything James speaks about, after all, God will accomplish the work right Tyndale? If he is passive, how does one resolve what James exhorts?Or, after the salvific miracle, Does God then remove a level of the *active* nature you decribe in regards to salvation as scripture most affirmitively shows that we have choices to make staus post our regeneration?
    Without taking me out of context, please resolve this seemingly conflicting idea that is in scripture. As you know I adhear to the doctrines of grace, Gods sovereignty and the rightful power of His elective decrees. But this is not to remove the fact that scripture rightfully shows man must repent, man must believe, man must receive etc etc etc.

    You have yet to answer this?
    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey

    [ March 13, 2002, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
  11. Gina B

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    Must everything be an argument? Give me a break! If you're never perfect you're always going to be somewhat in a state of repentance. There's what happens when you realize you're a sinner and in need of God (salvation comes through belief, sure, repentance comes with belief, repentance doesn't get you salvation, anyone can be repentant and not truly believe on Jesus), but is it really an argument when it happens?
    Believe and be saved. Can you explain why it is so important exactly what second the repentance came? Are you a believer or not?
    Mr. Curtis: Some sins need to be looked at and assessed logically. I do believe that while God wants us to pray and ask for help, and be dependant on Him, he also doesn't want us to be total imbeciles either. [​IMG] We need to also try to help ourselves by looking closely at the problem. Could there be a physical/psychological need, addiction being fulfilled by the sin that may require professional or at least a more intense/direct approach by ourselves and or others before it can be stopped, instead of waiting for God to drop some magical desire down to just quit? Not saying that couldn't happen, but also saying that He gives people talents, abilities, and the use of their own minds for a reason, and sometimes people may not realize that utilizing those options may be part of their answer to prayer.
    Hope that made sense. [​IMG]
    da Gina
     
  12. HankD

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    Repentance: It begins in the mind and later ripens into actions.

    Who did it God or me? Both, and I'm glad He did.

    HankD
     
  13. Scott_Bushey

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    Gina,
    First of all, it seems that Mr.Curtis is addressing a few issues. One is the repentance that leads unto eternal life and the other is sin in contrast to the process of sanctification which occurs after men are regenerated. It is a scriptural fact that God gives the gift of repentance. It is also scriptural fact that men that do not repent will be held responsible for their own sin, God won't be held responsible for not allowing them to repent, they will be held for not repenting, hence, men must repent. God gives repentance, yet men must repent.
    It seems there is some *blurring* here by Mr. Curtis in view of his most valid question, and we thank him for his honesty in regards to his query.

    You know Gina, this is what men do. We *aggresively* divide Gods word. Scripture defines it as *Iron sharpening iron*. The concept of this sharpening is steel grinding or clashing against eachother. Swords cannot in any way be viewed as subtle objects, they are not Q Tips! They have a specific use, they are not used to cut toast or steak, they are used to do battle! However, jousting for sport, athletics and the like, can somewhat become heated. It should not be, but it is. Christians love. At times it may not seem as such, but we do. Also, some on this board have less than orthodox views of certain items. This calls for a larger sword. Swords come in all sizes you know. The Christian is called to hate evil, to hate the false teachers and the things they purport!

    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey

    [ March 13, 2002, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
  14. Gina B

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    "You know Gina, this is what men do"

    So if I ever feel the need to "aggressively divide" would I have to post as a guy? ;)
    Hehe. J/K
    da Gina
     
  15. Scott_Bushey

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    Gina,
    I hear you loud and clear sister! Insert foot here! Oh well, you know it's true though. Men do discuss things with a *testosterone* enhanced zeal. We are called in a different way than the other gender. You gals are typically (Now this is not a bad thing, mind you) more often, in a different manner, sittin at the Lords feet, praising Him, kissin His feet, worshipping Him. We could learn alot from your perspective, no doubt!

    Thanks Gina,
    In HIM,
    Sola Fide,
    Scott Bushey
     
  16. Daniel David

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    This is 2 Corinthians 3:14-17

    Please give an exposition of this passage since you believe that regeneration proceeds repentance. [​IMG]

    14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
    15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
    16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    As a side note, if you opinion of "dead" as found in Ephesians 2:1-3 meaning lifelessness is correct, would the second death spoken of in Revelation mean annihilation? [​IMG]

    Please answer both. BTW, I do not believe that one can in and of himself turn to the Lord. So you can not say with intelligence that I deny the depravity of man.
    :eek:
     
  17. Chris Temple

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    Not sure who you're addressing, but I'd say that this passage has to be interpreted by other Scripture; Scripture with Scripture. I assume you take it to mean that "when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away" that these people turn to God on their own accord. By that same reasoning one can say "believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" is also the independent action of men. But it is not, for we know Scripture also says "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him". Likewise no one can turn to the Lord unless "God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth" II Tim 2:25

    They turn to the Lord because he effectually draws them and grants them repentance. (There is of course, false repentance as well, just as there is false belief).

    Not necessarily. Context is what matters, and Scripture interpreting Scripture. Death has contextual meaning, just as does every word, including the Arminian's favorite, "all".

    No, but you do deny total depravity if man can turn in actual repentance with help. No one has answered the question yet that "unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." A dead man cannot turn toward something he cannot see. If man repented and was given eternal life, then man earned his own salvation, and Christ is not the author and perfecter of our faith but the reactor to it. As I said earlier, God rebirths the man from above, so that "they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will" (II Tim 2:26) and they then turn to Christ in faith and repentance.
     
  18. tyndale1946

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    Repent and be baptised... This is what John The Baptist preached. Now my question is why did those repent who did and those that were not his did not? Those that repented were Gods children because John baptised them and he didn't baptise the others why? Did the baptism make them children of God or were they already? What about Saul before he was pricked in the heart was he a child of God before or after? Paul stated later that his sin was ignorance and how many of Gods children are guilty of the same. Who art thou Lord?

    Repentance means to turn away and how can a person turn away from something they don't believe is wrong? Repentance implies godly sorrow and how can you be sorrowful unless a visitation from the Holy Spirit that convicts you? Would the Holy Spirit even bother with one that doesn't belong to him? Why would he its not his child and never was!

    Repentance belongs to Gods children and comes from the heart. Its true you may fool men showing them that you are something you are not but God looks on the heart and you cannot fool him. I don't have to impress men on weather I have repented or not for many say they have and carry on the same activities as before in the darkness.

    If I have done you a wrong I am bound being of the christian belief and a follower of Jesus Christ to repent and ask for your forgiveness.
    If you do not forgive me then that is charged against you because I did what the Lord instructed me to do. Repentance is for all Gods children as they live in the world and interact with each other and the Lord that brought them... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 13, 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    Amen to that Chris... Thanks for bring that up I forgot about it! You have to understand Total Depravity or nothing makes sense!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  20. Scott_Bushey

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    Glenn and Tyndale,
    Both of you state you understand total depravity but yet you deny mans responsibility in the equation.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Does God repent for these men? No, these men must repent on their own, yet you both seem to say that men cannot repent. I again state, this is not to imply that God does not give the gift of repentance or that the dead man, prior to regeneration is able to repent, come to Christ, he cannot. Yet, the scriptures show that men must repent, that men must believe, that men must receive.

    Can I please suggest a paper?
    http://www.apuritansmind.com/Worship/McMahonABriefCritiqueOfHyper-Calvinism.htm

    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey
     

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