Define "Winneth souls"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rubato 1, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
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    Could someone give me a definition for the phrase "winneth souls" Prov 11:30?
    Is this a result of wisdom? Or an act of someone who wants to be wise? Is it concerning the gospel, and if so to what degree?
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    What does that mean? Are you under the impression that there are degrees to the gospel?
     
  3. Pastor_Bob

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    Soulwinning is nothing more than giving a lost person the information they need and the opportunity to receive Christ as their personal Savior.

    Winning souls means that we take the Word of God and show people that they are sinners, show people that God loves them, show people that Jesus Christ died on the Cross to pay for their sins. In order to win souls we must teach people to turn their hearts from their sins in repentance and turn to Jesus Christ and trust Him for forgiveness and salvation. God must work the miracle and must change the heart, but God gives each of His children the responsibility of carrying the message of the gospel and explaining it and helping people to come to the decision to trust Christ.
     
  4. IFB Mole

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    Pastor Bob,

    You said,

    "God loves them, show people that Jesus Christ died on the Cross to pay for their sins."

    Did Jesus pay for their sin of unbelief, faithlessness in God and an unrepentant heart, or did he pay for ALL their sin except those three? I wonder if he paid for ALL their sin, then why believe to get saved when He paid for thier sin of unbelief? If Jesus paid for ALL the sins inclusively for ALL people without exception then ALL wil go to heaven, right?

    Just wondering. I see that the Bible teaches Jesus died for sinners, which I am one, but did he die for ALL the sin of ALL people? If so, why would anyone go to hell if Jesus paid for their sin? Why would ANYONE have to suffer twice (Jesus on the cross and a sinner in hell) for the same sins?
     
  5. standingfirminChrist

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    Christ died for all sins. If a person goes to hell, he or she goes to hell with their sins paid for.

    They go to hell because of rejection of Christ and the life He purchased for them on Calvary's tree.

    *edited to add: Just because some reject Christ and His gift of eternal life in Him does not mean He did not purchase that gift for them.

    I could go out and buy a car, go to a person on the street and offer to give it to him or her. He would have to accept it for it to be his. If he rejected the keys and the car, would that mean I never paid for it? Of course not.

    The price has been paid regardless whether one accepts or not.
     
    #5 standingfirminChrist, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2008
  6. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
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    This is what I have always heard. How to you know this has to do with sharing the gospel?
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    One cannot be saved without the hearing of the Word of God.

    One does not just wake up saved.

    Romans 10:14-17 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God
     
  8. menageriekeeper

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    How much gospel was there to be presented during OT times?

    Does this verse really pertain to presenting the gospel (as we assume somewhat naturally) or does it refer to something more simple such as keeping the peace or creating alliances of a more governmental nature? Was Proverbs not written by Soloman to his sons?
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    The OT Believers knew the gospel. They preached of Christ. Isaiah records that as do other OT books.

    When Christ died on the cross, He went and preached to those in prison. So the Old Testament believers did hear the gospel.
     
  10. Rubato 1

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    I'm not sure my question is understood. How does 'winning souls' refer to the salvation of men? Where is that parallel made or reference in another passage?
     
  11. readmore

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    I, for one, love this verse, because it shows that even before anyone had been given the Great Commission, even the busy, self-important people like King Solomon had time for some good, down home, old fashioned, door to door evangelization.
     
  12. menageriekeeper

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    Really? Good ol' King Solomon with 1200 women to look after? Sorry for being skeptical, but is there any corroboration in the OT for this interpretation? Or, are we reading into this passage what we want to get out of it?

    Isaiah prophecied of Christ, but I'm not sure that is the same as preaching His death, burial and ressurection. Remember, the Jews were expecting a conquering king, not a sacrifice for sin.

    God as the One God, the Great I Am, and the Law was preached within Jewish culture and occasionally outside it (Jonah) but there never seems to be the sort of individual evangelism that we think of today as "soul winning". I don't see evidence of that until after Christ gave the Great Commission.
     
  13. 2serve

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    Man that's an awesome question. I have used this verse so many times when teaching others the importance of soul winning, but you bring it into new light. Thank you.

    I went back to e-sword and looked it over and I think that truly it does speak of reaching others for Christ. This passage bieng in the OT doesn't really matter, I don't think, because even in the OT we see the death, burial and resurection prophesied of, though I do think that it may change the context a bit.

    I heard someone say and I think it bears repeating, "you will not win someone to Christ that you can't first win to your self"

    We are redeemed to a decision and one day we will either answer with the cross or we will answer for the cross.

    So then winning souls to Christ is something that wise Christians do. It's that whole "gold, silver and precious stones" v.s. "wood, hay and stubble" idea.

    I could ramble a lot here, as you have gotten my squirrel cage moving but I won't.
    I hope that all of that made sense if not scratch it off as the blitherings of a Baptist preacher. Thanks again for putting that in a new light.
     
  14. Rubato 1

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    I didn't see this post earlier, but this is what I'm asking, thanks, Menagerie.

    R1
     
  15. standingfirminChrist

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    Christ's death, burial, and resurrection was preached in the Old Testament. Check out the Psalms 22-24. You will find all 3 in there.
     
  16. IFB Mole

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    standingfirminChrist

    Would rejection of Christ be a sin that Christ paid for? If he paid for ALL the sin WITHOUT EXCEPTION for all peple INCLUSIVELY, how can a person be sent to hell? ALL their sin is paid for- even rejection, non acceptance, unbelief - whatever you want to call it, IT IS SIN that was paid for, so why is a person sent to hell??
     
  17. Rubato 1

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    THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THAT SIN WAS PAID FOR! The penalty for sin was laid on Jesus. I can buy you a gift, but you don't have to accept it. You don't even have to believe I purchased it. You certainly will not recieve it if you don't even believe I bought it!

    I fail to see how this is hard to understand and would like to further discuss it, perhaps on another thread...

    As I said before, the only real sin there is is not loving God enough. If you don't love him enough to believe on Him (thus calling him a liar in essence), you obviously don't love Him, and you are then guilty of the whole law, not just one commandment here or there.
     
  18. standingfirminChrist

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    Rejection is not sin. It is a choice. Christ paid for 'the sins of the whole world' not 'some of the sins of the whole world,' not 'most of the sins of the whole world.'
     
  19. Don

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    Rubato,
    Glad you asked the question. It made me look up the word, and that really confused me. Most of the actual translations for the Hebrew word have to do with "take" instead of "win."

    But, I found most of the following in Matthew Henry's commentary.

    Look for your first scriptural explanation in Genesis 12:5, where Abraham’s proselytes are called the souls that he had gotten (coincides with "take").

    In Daniel 12:3, the wise are said to turn many to righteousness.

    Matthew Henry's commentary on the second part of the verse:
    The wise are something more; they are as trees of knowledge, not forbidden, but commanded knowledge. He that is wise, by communicating his wisdom, wins souls, wins upon them to bring them in love with God and holiness, and so wins them over into the interests of God’s kingdom among men. The wise are said to turn many to righteousness, and that is the same with winning souls here, Dan. 12:3. Abraham’s proselytes are called the souls that he had gotten, Gen. 12:5. Those that would win souls have need of wisdom to know how to deal with them; and those that do win souls show that they are wise.
     
  20. Rubato 1

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    This is interesting, but what is the basis for saying that these are proselytes? Jacob's sons travelled to Egypt and were called 'souls' also (cf. Gen 46:26)
    I;m still not convinced that this verse refers to 'soulwinning,' as we know it...
     

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