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Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Primitive Baptist, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    Define DEAD.
     
  2. swaimj

    swaimj
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    DEAD means SEPARATED.

    To be physically dead is for the immaterial part of man (soul/spirit) to be separated from the physical part of man (the body).

    To be spiritually dead means that man is separated from God because of sin. There is a second death in which man is permanently separated from God eternally with no opportunity for redemption.
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    Then when sin came into the world and death by sin, so that sin passed upon all men for that all have sinned. Was not the punishment of God... Death upon the whole man body/soul/ and spirit all in their appointed time?... How dead was Adam and Eve?... Brother Glen :confused:
     
  4. Odemus

    Odemus
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    Could you clarify that question brother Glen?I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.
     
  5. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    I agree that when a person is physically dead, their soul is separated from their body. Here is another question, when the soul is separated from the body, what can the body do?
     
  6. Odemus

    Odemus
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    Provide a nutritious snack for parasites and plant life?
     
  7. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    Amen, brother! :D
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Swamji,

    I think we all agreed with you post about Dead and Separated ideas.

    Can you expand on your thoughts as to whether you think human beings can be affected by God even before faith and regeneration?
     
  9. swaimj

    swaimj
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    I understand your point. Of course a lifeless body is unable to do anything. But what about the dead soul? Is it unconscious? Is it unaware of God or of truth? Is it unaware of the consequence of rejecting salvation in this lifetime? I think your answer would be "no", "no", and "no". And based upon that, I think that the calvinistic practice of equating death to total inability is flawed.

    I see things like this Dr. Ray and I think there is biblical evidence for this. I believe that bound up in the preaching of the gospel is the ability to hear the gospel with a spiritual ear, understand it, and choose to believe it. The gospel is the "power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes" and the faith to believe comes not by some special act of sovereign grace but simply by hearing the gospel. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes through a simple act of gospel proclamation (my paraphrase but I think the grammar supports it).
     
  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Apparently the one talked about in Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;... Did he quicken by the written gospel?... Doesn't say he did!... How DEAD is the one reference to... Is he DEAD... Body... Soul... and Spirit or is the one in reference to his spirit just dormant?... Totally Depravity equals total inability... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    swami,

    Thanks!
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
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    Why do some people choose to believe and some not choose to believe? What is the differentiating factor? I say the factor is God's sovereign work. What is the non-Calvinist answer?

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
    www.spurgeon.org
     
  13. ScottEmerson

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    Freewill.
     
  14. swaimj

    swaimj
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    I second that!
     
  15. KenH

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    Come now, let's not dodge the question you know I am asking. [​IMG] Why do some people, by "free will", believe and other people, by "free will", not believe? What differentiates them? Is there something better in the person who believes as opposed to the one who doesn't? If we all have the same "free will" then why do some believe and some not believe? What is the non-Calvinist response?

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
    www.spurgeon.org
     
  16. ScottEmerson

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    Come now, let's not dodge the question you know I am asking. [​IMG] Why do some people, by "free will", believe and other people, by "free will", not believe? What differentiates them? Is there something better in the person who believes as opposed to the one who doesn't? If we all have the same "free will" then why do some believe and some not believe? What is the non-Calvinist response?</font>[/QUOTE]Why do you choose french fries while I choose onion rings? We just choose. There are many people who don't want to surrender to God - others do. Some are not thrilled with the idea of a Messiah. Others are not enamored with the idea of sin. Many harden their hearts. It's not about being "better," regardless of how Calvinists try to paint the picture. Free will enables one to choose correctly or choose incorrectly.

    Some of it is, of course, opportunity. People in America have much more opportunity to choose Christ than others in different parts of the world. This may seem unfair, but as Andy Stanley says, "Christianity is the most fair system possible." (Of course, he is outside his father's Calvinistic leanings. Coincidentally, he's my favorite preacher...)
     
  17. swaimj

    swaimj
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    If all must believe, that would not be free-will. If none could believe, that would not be free-will. If there is some force outside of us that causes us to do one or the other, that would not be free-will. So the answer is free-will. A person hears the gospel and can choose to believe or not. No tricks. It's that simple.
     
  18. TomMann

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    Try this:
    "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by Jesus Christ."
    ....Simply stated, the Father gives us to Jesus, Jesus gives the ear to hear, and the hearing brings faith. This also could explain why you so often encounter the phrase.... "He that has ears to hear, let him hear." Having ears to hear indicates being of the elect... born again.... a child of God!!! I'm also assuming that you believe that the Word of God is Jesus, and vice versa.
     
  19. swaimj

    swaimj
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    Is this quote from the scriptures? I'm not familiar with it. Where is it found?
     
  20. ScottEmerson

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    Is this quote from the scriptures? I'm not familiar with it. Where is it found?</font>[/QUOTE]Romans 10:17 - "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

    VERY different, isn't it?
     

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