From a previous discussion between Allan and myself: How do any of these fit with the following passages? . I would say in the passages that I referenced above just from the OT, God's "knowing" of certain people or nations can certainly be rendered as a "love" or "affection" and even "appointed". In the NT, there are passages we could look at that imply the same relationship found in the OT with God and His people. I think there is room to expand the definition to include God's knowledge of some to be spoken as a "covenantal knowing". Those with whom He is in covenant with from the OT to the NT is a form of "knowing" for God. Please define your use of "know" in #2. Normally we do not use the word we are attempting to define in the defintion. What does Christ "fully know of them"? Show me where I have based it on a preconceived idea of what it means. I'm allowing the context to define the way the word is used. You need to explain why the words I suggested are not supported by the texts. And you need to explain and show me a passage where "love" is "implied" in the word "know" without it becoming another definition which you will not allow for. No one is redefining a word. We are simply allowing for another defintion to be employed in certain contexts where the other definitions are not adequate. The definitions you have supplied are not adequate in relation to God's knowledge of some people or groups. And I have briefly showed you OT examples of this occurance. Let me provide a quote from Walter Kaiser Jr. in his book Toward an Exegetical Theology to show what I'm describing. And this is from a non-theological website explaining English grammar. That's what I am advocating is happening with the word "know" in the passages I've referenced. The definition is being determined by the environment or context of that word.