Definitive Grace in salvation - Rom. 11:6

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Rom. 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    Paul uses the preposition "ek" rather than "apo" in providing a definitive line between grace and works. The primary distinction between "ek" and "apo" is that "ek" has reference to something that originates from within something whereas "apo" primarily refers to something that originates outside of something.

    If something is "by grace" it cannot contain anything that originates from within "works" or "out of" works otherwise grace is no more grace.

    Likewise, if it is "by works" it cannot contain anything that originates from within grace or "out of" grace or otherwise it is no more works.

    The saved/justified "by works" view directly contradict this latter denial by Paul. This view interprets "by works" to mean works that originate from within grace or "out of grace" or grace produced works. Paul flatly denies this.

    In context, grace refers to something that is exclusively the work of God alone as in "election OF GRACE" (v. 5) which Paul previously denies includes anything occurring after human birth (Rom. 9:11) including the exercise of the human will (Rom. 9:17).

    Moreover, grace is defined as something that by nature is FREE or a gift without any motivating merits found within the object of Grace but IN SPITE OF what is merited by that object (Rom. 3;24). The very same word translated "freely" is translated "without a cause" in describing the hatred of men toward Christ - there was no CAUSE in Christ to produce the hatred. Hence, there is no cause in sinners (Rom. 3:23) to produce God's justification of sinners (Rom. 3:24).


    Hence, Grace is strictly God's work upon something while excluding all works provided by anyone other than God.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Let me emphasize once again - The saved/justified "by works" view or salvation ultimately obtained by "works of faith" directly contradict Paul's denial that works originating out of Grace can be defined as grace. This view interprets "by works" to mean works that originate from within grace or "out of grace" or grace produced works. Paul flatly denies this. Indeed, grace is the work of God alone upon or through but never including the works of men as "grace" but rather as "the works of righteousness" which do not save us (Tit. 3:5 - "not by works of righteousenss which we have done, but according to his mercy he hath saved us...."
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    The lost cannot be saved by works - and the saved cannot reach a point where the righteousness of Christ is no longer needed - but rather their own works are sufficient to be compared to the perfect moral law of God (the TEN Commandments included according to the Baptist Confession of Faith) and to be found a full and complete example of it's still authoritative standard for all mankind.

    And yet IF the saved become a tinge proud - Paul warns them of losing their salvation - in Romans 11.

    =====================================
    Romans 11
    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:


    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
    23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

    ====================

    This is the very worst scenario for both OSAS and for the notion that the saved do not suffer eternal lose if they choose disobedience.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Romans 11 has absolutely NOTHING to do with personal individual salvation unless you believe you can saved, lost and the resaved which Hebrews 6:4-6 says is impossible. What was cut off is grafted in "again." Paul is speaking only of the two alternative sources from which he calls out His elect.

    Between Abraham and Christ the primary source was Israel. After the cross the primary source is Gentiles. However, at no point were the "remnant" = the true saved were ever cut off or needed to be grafted in again.
     

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