Degree Eqivalence?

Rhet,

I don't disagree. But I would rather get the Ph.D. and then do a distance learning M.Div. if the seminary required it.

Really, how much of a M.Div. would be left if I already had a Ph.D.? Couldn't be much.

Take some practical theology courses and preaching courses, etc.

Piece of cake.

While a person is teaching in the "university" setting he can pick up the view remaining courses he would need to earn the M.Div.

I've seen this done before.

Now if a person knew absolutely that he was not going to get sidetracked, then it wouldn't matter.

B.A., M.Div., Ph.D. works fine.

Kind of off track, but entrance to the M.Div. should be allowed with an A.A. degree.

 

In dentistry, many programs only require two years of college before entrance.

The historical fact is that the M.Div. used to be a B.Div. Why don't we just admit that fact and allow students to enter the M.Div. with an A.A. Then after three years of seminary (M.Div.), students would be at the same spot their secular counterparts are at.

I attended TEDS and there was no reason why I couldn't have begun seminary after two years of college.

Actually, the whole process needs to be reconsidered.

Fours of of college with a religion major. Two years Greek, two years German, OT and NT Introduction. 12 credits of systematic theology, church history, history of Christianity, etc. Then go to seminary for one year, earn the M.Div. and off to Ph.D. land we go.

Personally, I didn't find seminary any more difficult than college.

 

When the Bachelor of Divinity (today's MDiv) was the primary seminary offering, wasn't a bachelor's degree a prerequisite? Typically, students entered seminary (as did I) with a non-theological undergrad degree from a liberal arts institution. The specialization came with the BD. Students could then go to the ThM.

Perhaps I'm too much of a traditionalist, but I think a good case can be made for students gaining a liberal arts education prior to theological studies. Such an education, IMO, enhances theological studies and makes the minister a more well-rounded individual, able to communicate with a broader audience.

I realize there are exceptions and I realize that a case can be made for the undergrad theological degree prior to seminary.

Blessings,
Bill

 

Broadus and Rhet,

I don't disagree with what your saying. I just believe that a well-rounded education can be had with 70 liberal arts credits and a 96 credit M.Div.

You are right. There is a real push in all fields to specialize after two years. My daughter attends Auburn University and I can't believe how technical most of the B.A. degrees are instead of focusing on liberal arts.

So you probably have a point.

 

Churches are getting harder and harder on preachers. If I remember right when I was in seminary (SWBTS) they told us the average time for a preacher is two years at a chruch and only 20 percent have a church after five years. Fifty percent of those who start seminary do not graduate.

 

There is no real glut of preachers. Just ask the dozens of cities in the west with little or no gospel witness. Ask the large metropolitan areas of this country (such as Detroit, New York, Chicago, LA). Ask the Chinese, the Indians, the Africans. There are plenty of places that need pastors and preachers. There may be a glut of those who actually want to go somewhere and do the job, away from their southern comfort zone.

Paul says that his MDiv wasn't harder than college. I can't imagine that. It is much more focused and rigorous, typically, but of course that depends on where you go.

I think the BDiv used to be built off of a non-religious BA wasn't it? I think this was mentioned, but I don't know for sure (whether it was mentioned or whether it was true).

Paul also mentioned about getting a PhD first and then an MDiv, saying that the PhD would put you ahead for an MDiv. Academically, the PhD is a terminal degree, the MDiv is not. It would be kind of backwards I think to do it that way. In most cases, I think an MDiv gives advanced standing in a PhD program, does it not?

I think the bottom line here is that it depends on what you want to do. Here is my perspective: If you want to pastor, get an MDiv and then a PhD if you desire. If you want to teach college, get a PhD. If you want to teach seminary, get an MDiv, ThM, and PhD.

 

The pacific northwest people in the SBC will tell you that they have found southern preachers do not work out very well there. It is primarily because pastors in those areas must be much more driven because they have to work harder. I spoke with them about pastoring there and that is what I was told. When I told them I was from the area then they were willing to talk.

I found the M.Div. a piece of cake compared to when I was studying physics. So it depends on your major and strengths and weaknesses. Some of the classes I had, should have been taken by lay people in the church before they came and others I had to work hard. I knew men in the M.Div. that told me they found it quite easy but they had gone to places like Baylor and Moody.

 

Some of my friends who have been excellent pastors are now wanting to teach because of all the conflict in the SBC.

I have found that people who are willing to work and do ministry. Those who are lazy are most often the complainers.

The field I am in now (Industrial Technology) is needing professors badly. They expect 25 percent of the professors to retire within the next five years. Among high schools in the same field they range from a need of 9 percent to 23 percent just for next year. In fact quite a number of schools have discontinued the program simply because they cannot get teachers.

 

Iwouldn't be surprised. Church planting or small church pastoring and growht is hard work. IT seems that many want a big church handed to them rather than working for it, but I would not by any means broadbrush that to say "all men," or even speak of specific groups.

I didn't find it particularly hard. But it was certainly rigorous and a very high level was expected. A lot does depend on educational background and intellectual ability.

Of course, physics would be harder than theology in many ways. Theology is certainly not the hardest discipline no matter what school or degree you are working on. It is the only one with eternal consequences though.

 

Does work for obtaining these degrees require courses in spelling and grammar, as well as typing and editing?