Degree mill problems!

But Steven Flockhart’s degrees were not from Almeda or Concordia. They were from Covington Theological School in Fort Oglethorpe, Ga. This is an unaccredited correspondence school but I would not call it a degree mill. I only have one friend with a degree from there (Master’s). We had attended classes together through seminary extension at our local association office and he went on to take some classes from Covington eventually earning a degree. His course work was in line with what we took from Seminary extension and it took him about two years to finish his masters.

As I read this article the problem was not that he had unaccredited degrees. It was that his resume was written to imply (although not state specifically) that his degrees were from Columbia International University (where he was a student for two years) and Southeastern Seminary.

I would not call Covington a degree mill although I am sure some on this board would. I do recognize that it is not an accredited school and a degree from there does not carry anywhere near the same weight as a degree from CIU or Southeastern.

Again I don’t think Flockhart’s problem was his degree but that he lied about it.

 

Regarding Covington:

It's been a while since I've looked at their site, so perhaps they are not millish anymore.

IMO some tests for a mill , as a mill is defined IMO above , ie, as not requiring what should be expected for a degree, and assuming Cov. still offers masters and docs in Bible/Theolo, are:

1) At Cov. do the majority of the graduate faculty have accredited PhDs/ThDs , or at least recognized as the equivalent, in the area of instruction? By that they would seem better qualified to deliver doc level work and evaluate student products as such--or not as such. I suppose an equivalent to accredited might be, say, from BJU (before TRACS).

2) At Cov. can a grad of the masters program get acceptance into an accredited doc program and actually succeed in it? That might be a good test. Can anyone name one Covington grad who has on the strength of the Cov masters done an accredited doc? As a comparison, BJU grads have for some time done that. Radmacher eg!

3) At Cov. are entry requirements for doc programs rigid as requiring exams, accredited undergrad degrees, languages? If not, how could the doc student body beevidenced as prepared to do doc work?


What I notice so often about mills is their determination, despite their inadequacy to do so in terms of having substance and standards, to offer doctoral degrees to those who are less willing or less able to do genuine doc work.


Just my thoughts

 

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Paid

I agree on all three of your points, and on your determination of Covington's lack of quality in grad studies.

What many participants in such grad programs do not seem to get is the questionable ethic of having the appearance of accomplishing the equivalency, since the SAME degrees are given (!), of that required of grads in good schools.

That is, how many with such as a Covington doc fail to qualify to friends that they took the much easier and nearly effortless route to learn about their Master and His Word

...to get the title without giving the effort to really earn it

...as though the title itself ,and not the fruits of strenuous effort, not the actual learning, was what really mattered ?

How many then rationalize their choice with fables about there just being no other cost effective or distance opportunities?

And how many then turnabout and preach to their congreants that we should be fair and honest in everything we do and give of our all to the Master and give our best energy to learn His Word??

And how is all of this a good witness to the life changing power of our God?

 

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I agree.

As you know I, after finishing work for 3 theology masters of ascending substance or rigor { MA, MDiv (equiv), ThM } in 2 residential RA USA schools, took my doc instead "out of Africa." It took three years but

1) cost less than $3000!

2) All by DE!

3) Profs ,with accredited docs, from three public SA unis were on my committee.

It fit my wallet and my immobility.

But it left me my self respect.

 

I don't like what the guy did.

But, I gotta wonder, "Am I really 'better' than he is?" Without Jesus, the answer is a resounding, "NO!"

 

I assume we all are including Jesus in what we do educationally for Jesus.

 

Welllllll

I pray that flockhart did not include Jesus in his schemes . . . but, if he did . . . that is really a low point . . .

But, apart from him and those like him, I agree - "including Jesus in what we do educationally for Jesus" should be an assumption.

 

point , I guess, is in the preposition: "for Jesus."

 

Sage advice . . .

 

Hi Paid,

I agree with you. I should have put growing in quotation marks. I think a lot of "church growth" is merely increasing the number of religiously-minded unregenerate or superficial believers on our membership rolls. We've lost the concept of the local church's being a community of believers.

Bill

 

Bill

"Church growth" is more about moving believers from one church to another and reaching the lost for the Kingdom and definitely not about making disciples . . . tho't gb would like that one . . .

 

Amen!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: Sad but in most cases it seems true.

 

There seems to be a misconception of correspondence schools. It is in no way just send in your money and viola get your piece of paper. The experience I have had with them requires study, taking tests and passing them. Just like secular schools they have to charge a tuition. Albeit a flat rate sometimes, it in no wise handed to you on a silver platter. Some students finish their courses at a faster rate than others

That does not make them a diploma mill. Their requirements may be less strigent than some high dollar institutions that really don't teach much, but some of their courses are outstanding. Even if you paid your tuition in advance. You don't get your degree until you have successfully passed all your tests. Accreditation has nothing to do with it. I know a lot of good schools that have chosen not to become accredited for what ever reason. Most of the refusal for accreditation is cost.

 

Accreditation is a farse

Accreditation is strickly voluntary. Which has nothing to do with quality of degree programs. Most accrediting agencies look at stability, class size, class accomadations, etc. They aren't concerned about the quality of degree programs. Just the money they can get from your school

 

IMO, if you want to study by correspondence at an unaccredited school, you might be better off spending your money on amazon.com.

People always bring up cost as a factor for unaccredited schools. I say they are too expensive. If you are paying more than what you would pay for a conference or seminar, then I say that you are probably paying too much. Why? If your degree won't be recognized by credible institutions, why bother with earning the "degree"? Just study on your own or maybe find some other pastors with some education to point you in the right direction.

Accredited degrees might be more expensive, but unaccredited ones don't give you the utility.

 

Why Offend Fellow Christians?

Jesus showed compassion - and as Christians, are we not to follow His example?

A church, is an organization aiming to win souls -- not sell drugs or porn -- and regardless of how weak its administration may be, surely it is deserving of MUCH respect from the rest of us. We do that we our parents -- no matter their flaws, we show respect. Right? Or am I in the wrong board?

I see no need to make offensive remarks about ANY church.
It is not Christian to do so.

Don't know which is worse, an honest mistake made by a church, or an offensive remarks from a "Christian leader" about another Christian?

Can we not correct with love? Not knowing how that happened, should we be hasty to judge? And is this degree of judgement acceptable in the eyes of God.

Dr. Bob, with all due respect and brotherly love, why do i keep running into posts by you in which you throw offenses at organizations who work so very hard to spread the word of God?

What would non-Christians who run into the board think of this cruel "Christians-attacking-Christians" conduct? Where is the love?

Why no "good Christians" of this board suggest prayers for this unfortunate event?

So sad.