Delay is Done!

Seems so, unused campaign funds can be used by congressmen to pay legal expenses that are incurred related to their work in office, but the Federal Election Commission has final say. Source: NC Time.com (story on Cunningham by Mark Walker) - linkie

Um, "fact" and "probably would have" are mutually exclusive ~~ think about it.

No, it's a ridiculous generalization to say that no Democrat would step down for the greater good.

The Forer effect, but that has nothing to do with the generalization of yours that I was refering to.

Huh? Most the media are conglomerates which don't vote. If you mean that most the writers and reporters, their main cause is their own careers and sensationalism sells.

True, it was mostly leaks from Starr's office and gossip heavily salted with conservative thinktank commentary.

I agree.

They were far worse to Clinton than they were to Reagan, whom they idolized, and Bush, who got a free walk after 9/11, until recently. They were hard on Nixon, perhaps justly, and ridiculous towards Ford.

Except that Starr specifically exhonerated Clinton on the FBI file scandal. The exhoneration was barely covered at all compared to how the scandal was.

I have no idea what the "Loris" is.

Yes they did.

That's one of the sillier comments I've heard - the press glories in scandal. Rarely did they put refutations on the front page.

The guy committed suicide. That's sad, but only die-hard scandal-mongers and conspiracy enthusiasts consider it to be anything more. CNN has 37 mentions of it, including this question to Starr,

"Pepperdine's School of Public Policy, which you're going to be the founding dean of, has been partially underwritten by the Scaife Foundation, whose chairman, Richard Scaife, has been promoting some theories about some of the things you're investigating, most notably the death of Vincent Foster.

"Are you concerned about -- were you aware of the money? Are you concerned there'd be a possible appearance of a conflict of interest?" (linkie)

and,

"Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr has concluded that former White House counsel Vincent Foster's death was a suicide, as previous investigations have determined. "(linkie).

The NY Daily News has 27 stories and the NYTimes has a whooping 219.

You liked the cartoons, I take it. Tom Tomorrow is quite funny.

You really do have a Clinton obsession. Tom Delay was hardly ridden out of office by the media. He, being under indictment, chose not to run. He is actually still in office.

Huh? Where did that come from? .... Although, now that you mention it, he did, especially in terms of fiscal management.

In all the news & opinion pieces about Clinton during his term in office, I don't recall any that included that caveat: "but he's doing a good job", so this quibble seems absurd.

That he did. You might want to read up on the K-Street Project - it'll swell your heart with pride.

 

The last "article" was a link to an entire website of years upon years upon years - with links to original sources - of documented media bias towards Clinton, Gore and other Democrats by the so-called liberal press. I included it to counter your own undocumented, unevidenced whine about bias towards poor, misunderstood Republicans.

 

Daisy, I am shocked. I thought the only person you liked more than Delay was Ashcroft.

 

If Delay is so innocent, why is he voluntarily stepping down?

 

not even close.

I don't actually dislike Delay, but I do believe the charges against him are probably true. I don't like what he did in concentrating Republican power in the private sector, but, as Scott pointed out, he did it well. He is very competent as a power-broker - I'm sure he'll continue to be successful in that line of work, surely for far more pay than he received as a Congressman.

 

The last "article" was a link to an entire website of years upon years upon years - with links to original sources - of documented media bias towards Clinton, Gore and other Democrats by the so-called liberal press. I included it to counter your own undocumented, unevidenced whine about bias towards poor, misunderstood Republicans. </font>[/QUOTE]Give me a break... the only people paying attention who don't think the Mainstream media is leftist are you and the folks at CBS and the NYT.

When over 80% of the Washington press corps votes for Democrats and expresses views that are well to the left of the mainstream... bias is absolutely natural. Anyone who claims that their bias doesn't effect how they approach, edit, interpret, and present the facts in the political realm is either grossly self-deceived or an abject liar.

I am not even opposed to a partisan press. The nation began with that set up and it served the country very well. Opposing points of view were expressed. Facts were debated. People decided.

My objection is to people who claim objectivity when not only are they not objective but can't be. Politics is too speculative, too philosophical, and far too subjective for anyone to make the claim that they are "objective". The MSM isn't even close.

Another for instance is still in the making. Hillary is a defendent in a civil suit concerning fundraising irregularities. She is using legal maneuvering to avoid being put under oath or from supplying documents. Where is the MSM on this? Didn't they loudly decry Bush's unwillingness to give up the supposed dirt about the NG? Didn't they assume as soon as the rumor came out about DeLay's indictments that he was guilty and that there was a story for them to flesh out? Sure they did... so why is Hillary getting a pass?

 

First, no one here has any idea whether he is guilty of any of the crimes he's been accused of.

Second, he said he did it for the good of the GOP and the conservative cause.

Third, being pressured into resigning is no more a confession of guilt than an employee who decides they are unwilling to endure the pressure of a boss that wants to get rid of them but can't find a legitimate reason for doing so... But still are so hostile that the employee can't do their job or handle the stress. A friend of mine just walked away from a long term management position because of this situation. In short, not being able to handle all the stress of serving in Congress and defending yourself does not constitute a confession.

 

Another thing on that article you defended from the howler... It was nothing upon nothing upon nothing... to do with this conversation. It was about some "secret" evidence that DeLay used to get people in the House to vote for impeachment. Since when is it a rule that all that information needed to be made public?

If it was so powerful that it convinced people in Congress to vote to impeach then it is only rational to assume that the reasons for not making it public were not because it would hurt the GOP from a PR point of view. IOW's, why would the GOP withhold something that convinced fence sitters to vote against Clinton when the same info could have helped them garner public support? The presumption of that guy seems to be that the evidence would have somehow helped Clinton... but that makes no sense.

 

Scott,

I can relate...

Then when they had forced me out they falsified my personell records so that when *they* were fired I still couldn't go back!

Great job... Loved it... two blocks away from my front door... Now I drive 65 one way...

2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done.

Mike Sr.

 

Sorry. I put Loris instead of Loral.

Loral produces missile guidance systems. Prior to Clinton, sales by these type companies had to be cleared by the State Dept due to security concerns. Clinton gave the approval authority to the Dept of Commerce under Ron Brown.

Loral sold missile guidance technology to China... in a strange coincidence, the Dems received huge donations from Loral's CEO. Clinton had a financing scandal with Chinese connections that required his campaign to return tainted money... after it had been used to win election... another strange coincidence. Another strange and very convenient coincidence, Brown was about to be put under oath when his plane fell from the sky.

There is some speculative stuff in this link but the basics are there:

http://rocchio.syr.edu/data/ORION/intelligence.services.usa.Counterintelligence.Red-Flags_treason.html

Compare the mute of the media concerning Clinton giving missile guidance technology to Bush attempting to give a Chinese company contracts for container inspection (which I also disapprove of btw).

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/98-485.pdf

This link show that Congress passed a law moving the authority back to State... The date helps explain why the report wasn't big news... It doesn't explain why the media wasn't all over the appearance of impropriety like they are when Bush sneezes.

 

Sorry. I put Loris instead of Loral.

Loral produces missile guidance systems. Prior to Clinton, sales by these type companies had to be cleared by the State Dept due to security concerns. Clinton gave the approval authority to the Dept of Commerce under Ron Brown.

Loral sold missile guidance technology to China... in a strange coincidence, the Dems received huge donations from Loral's CEO. Clinton had a financing scandal with Chinese connections that required his campaign to return tainted money... after it had been used to win election... another strange coincidence. Another strange and very convenient coincidence, Brown was about to be put under oath when his plane fell from the sky.

There is some speculative stuff in this link but the basics are there:

http://rocchio.syr.edu/data/ORION/intelligence.services.usa.Counterintelligence.Red-Flags_treason.html

Compare the mute of the media concerning Clinton giving missile guidance technology to Bush attempting to give a Chinese company contracts for container inspection (which I also disapprove of btw).

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/98-485.pdf

This link show that Congress passed a law moving the authority back to State... The date helps explain why the report wasn't big news... It doesn't explain why the media wasn't all over the appearance of impropriety long before then like they are when Bush sneezes.

 

First, no one here has any idea whether he is guilty of any of the crimes he's been accused of.

Second, he said he did it for the good of the GOP and the conservative cause.

Third, being pressured into resigning is no more a confession of guilt than an employee who decides they are unwilling to endure the pressure of a boss that wants to get rid of them but can't find a legitimate reason for doing so... But still are so hostile that the employee can't do their job or handle the stress. A friend of mine just walked away from a long term management position because of this situation. In short, not being able to handle all the stress of serving in Congress and defending yourself does not constitute a confession. </font>[/QUOTE]I only live a few miles from Delay's office in Sugarland, and I have known about Delay's often shady dealings for years. There is no doubt that he finally getting what has been coming to him.

I will not miss Delay at all!

 

Would you care to list the shady dealings you are privvy to ?

 

Do you mean shady dealings as in playing hard ball with Democrats?

The funny thing about the whole redistricting fiasco is that DeLay was pretty effectively supporting an attempt to make the districts appear "natural" but more reflective of the political views of Texans. Congressional representation due to a long history of Gerrymandered districts in favor of Dems left the state overwhelmingly "red" but with a disproportionate number of Democratic Congressmen.

 

We'll see if Terry backs up those claims. Since it covered years, Terry should be able to post up a whole bunch of them.

 

I won't bother. People like you have already made Delay out to be another selfless public servant doing what is best for the country.

Please, give me a break! Delay has been caught and now is doing what he can for damage control. I look forward to seeing him prosecuted, convicted, and jailed!

 

I haven't ever said ONE word about Delay. So stop yer fibbing.

And I knew you weren't going to back up what you said. You never do.

 

Terry,
What seems very strange to me is that your state elected this guy, and you are screaming the loudest. Your state has a long history of electing people who seem to harm this country when put on the national scene going back to LBJ and Jim Wright. Please keep your politicians at home.

 

That just goes to show what a cocoon you've wrapped yourself in - or how you define anything left of the John Birch Society as leftist.

Yeah sure, it all comes to who were included in the poll of "the Washington Press Corp" and who were excluded. Since you claim so much, back it up with facts rather than "everyone knows" type allegations.

Actually, I think the professionals among then bend over backwards to compensate for perceived bias from folk like yourself. Anyone who can't see that is either grossly self-deceived or an abject liar.

This has what to do with Delay - you remember, the topic of this thread? Oh yeah, if you got no defense, change the subject, hammer the Democrats on something unrelated. I mean really! crying "Clinton!!" every time a Republican is criticised is bogus and pathetic.

 

You link is to Freepers "Various FR Posters" conglomeration of unlinked sources (when there is any attribution at all), commentary mixed with news reports, partial quotations with strategic elipses & sentences with no context provided and you have the gall to dis the Village Voice whose reporters have won Pulitzer Prizes among many others for their reporting? Of course, I pointed you to actual cartoons (which you fairly obviously didn't even bother to check, which leads me to suspect you routinely refuse to look at anything which might contradict your worldview) whereas you mean your hodgepodge site to be taken seriously!?!

One interesting thing your citation does is show the myriad MSM stories about Clinton which you claim had been ignored. You can't have it both ways, try as you do.

Well, your ridiculous site cites a ton of media reports concerning the former...And Google got 271,000 hits for '+Clinton +missile +guidance +technology +China', including a Pulitzer Prize (linkie) received by the NYTimes for its reporting on the story vs 162,000 hits for '+Bush +container +inspection +China +contract'. Of course, many of those are not to actual news reports, most earlier ones are archived and blogging happened only recently ~~~ I don't think your point has been proven just because you say so.

Actually, it doesn't. On page 2 in the Summary, "A range of concerns were prompted by New York Times reports in April 1998 that the Justice Department began a criminal investigation into whether Loral Space and Communications Ltd. and Hughes Electronics Corp. violated export control laws." Does that mean that the story prompted this report or was that just put in for filler?

On page 4 in the Introduction, "The New York Times reported in April 1998 that the Justice Department began a criminal investigation into whether Loral Space and Communications Ltd. (of New York), and Hughes Electronics Corp. (of Los Angeles) violated export control laws." But you're saying that the media actually ignored this story even though the footnote cites two different stories by this paper in April 4 and April 13, 1998 alone? On page 10, the footnote citing the source of the information in this report again references the NYTimes reports on April 13 as well as an additional ones from June 27 and May 23, 1998. Page 11 cites an additional NYTimes report from earlier on May 3, 1998.

Page 14 of the report refers readers to the December 24, 1998 report in the NYTimes. Page 15 cites the December 9, 1998 NYT report. Page 16 cites the June 14, 2000 NYT report. Page 24 cites the March 10, 1999 NYT report as well as one from April 23, 1999. Page 25 cites one from December 31, 1998 and one from March 6, 1999. Page 30 cites one from May 7, 1999. Page 32 cites one from December 7, 1998. Page 33 cites the previously cited December 24, 1998 report. Page 34 cites the September 18, 1998 report. Page 39 cites one from June 18, 1998. Page 40 cites the one from February 23, 1999. Page 46 cites one from August 28, 1993. Pages 48, 49, 51 and 52 recap various already listed citations.

Pages 53, 54 and 57 list New York Times reports as Major Chronological Events for 4/4/98, 4/13/98, 5/15/98 and 12/15/98 (the timeline spans September 1988 under the Reagan Administration to September 2001 under Bush fils).

All those references in your own source are only from one, single newspaper; I didn't list any of the others out of the 117 footnotes, some of which listed multiple citations. That sort of puts the lie to your claim that the story was barely covered at all.

And, most importantly, none of this has anything to do with the OP. It is all a distraction because you can't face that a Republican might, just might, have done something illegal.

Rather than discuss the real topic, you must, yet again whine about Clinton as though anything he did had any bearing whatsoever on every single political topic.

He's gone. Get over him. Sheesh!