Democracy in the Moslem world?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mima, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. mima

    mima
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would any rational man consider military action as a way to establish democracy in the Moslem world?
     
  2. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,922
    Likes Received:
    295
    That's how most democracies have been established.
     
  3. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you are saying that President Bush is irrational. Is that correct? If it is, you need to read how to better launch attacks at him. There are several posters on here that are expert.
     
  4. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    3

    Not exactly. Most democricies have risen up due to armed rebellion against tyranny by the people that want democracy. That certainly hasn't happened in Afghanastan or Iraq. these people don't know anything about democracy nor do they care. They just want their everyday lives to get better.
     
  5. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you looking for a response to a man's rationality? Military action? Democracy? Muslims? Looks like a scatter gun question with a hidden agenda.
     
  6. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    93
    Probably not, because democracy is largely considered evil in Islam in that it puts power of rule in man's hands where it belongs only in Allah's.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Not even that, I venture to say. They just want a life where they can pray five times a day facing to where they think East is, beat up their women, and teach their children to hate infidels. They don't really have a clue what democracy is. Reminds me of monkeys in the forest who haven't yet seen what a gun does.
    Point a gun at it close range, and it'll stick its finger into the barrel hole.
     
  8. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,922
    Likes Received:
    295
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by carpro
    That's how most democracies have been established.



    You're nitpicking.

    Most democracies have been established through force of arms.
     
  9. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    It seems to me the people of Iraq don't want democracy - they want Sharia Law which is diametrically opposed to democracy. An Islamic State (which is what we set up over there) is diametrically opposed to democracy. There will not be a truly democratic Iraq no matter how many Coalition troops are there or are not there. Civil war and vying for ultimate rule between Shia and Sunni is going to be the outcome no matter what the West tries to do. It would have been helpful & saved many American lives if Bush & the other leaders would have understood this before going into Iraq to begin with. Sharia Law and freedom cannot coexist.
     
  10. Daisy

    Daisy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    How is Shari'ia diametrically opposed to democracy if the people choose it by voting for it?
     
  11. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,922
    Likes Received:
    295
    Penal laws

    Islamic law divides criminal acts into three categories:

    (i) Hudud (also known as "Had") (crimes against Allah); these offences are similar to the ten commandments of the Jewish-Christian tradition, and include theft, adultery, defamation, highway robbery, use of alcohol, apostasy, and rebellion. The punishments for these offences are specified in the Koran and Sunna, and include the amputation of hands and feet of thieves, the stoning of adulterous Moslems to death, and 80 lashes for public drunkards and defamers.

    (ii) Quesas (crimes against the person): these crimes include varying degrees of murder and assault. Punishment includes the family of the victim retaliating with a "death-blow" against a wilful murderer. The victim however can also waive punishment or ask for blood money.

    (iii) Ta'azir, or penalties not fixed by the Koran or Sunna, include embezzlement, sodomy and perjury. These offences are considered to threaten one of the five essential guarantees of Islam: to practice religion, to develop the mind, to procreate, personal security, and the possession of property and wealth. The Islamic judge has the power to use his or her discretionary judgement when determining punishment, but is restricted to the Koranic range of accepted punishments, which includes reprimand, threats, boycott, public disclosure, fines, imprisonment, flogging and the death penalty for such crimes as sodomy or espionage.

    In some Islamic states Ta'azir crimes are set by the Parliament. Each state is free to establish its own criminal code and there is a great disparity in the punishments for some of these crimes.
     
  12. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    One of the main conceptions of democracy is equality. Under Sharia Law, women are not equal and do not have equal rights, for one thing.
     
  13. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,922
    Likes Received:
    295
    True.

    From everything I've read , being a female muslim would not be the thing to be.
     
  14. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    Should have never been the objective to start with though if successful it would probably do a great deal to support peace.

    The only reason the military should be deployed is to defend the US... I believe the invasion was justified on that and that alone based on the info the leadership had at the time.

    The only thing we should insist on now is a stable country that is at worst benign to the US.
     
  15. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    It ends democracy by establishment of a rigid, entrenched theocracy.
     
  16. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    0
    A personal, intrusive question out of curiousity regarding your support -- do you choose to live under Shari'ia? If the question is offensive, please ignore it.
     
  17. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    93
    I remember years ago doing some research on John Locke, and if I recall he was a progressive thinker, but he did not support the idea of democracy-- which is rule by the people-- based on the simple fact that majorities of people are just not smart enough, fair enough, rational enough to put into the force of law what most want.

    A republic and a representative democracy are essentially the same thing. If we had a true democracy, we would all vote on bills by the thousands concerning taxes, immigration, defense, education, and so many other subjects. So a republic-- where 'officials' are elected to vote on bills at the appropriate levels of government, and with the means of research and recommendations-- is less tedious, if less democratic in its strictest sense.

    But as to democracy in Muslim countries, all this comes down to the question: are elected governments responsbile to people who elect them, to do their bidding by majorities, or at least perceived majorities?... or are such governments responsible to outside powers that put them into power? In other terms, if they want a repressive regime that governs largely by sharia law, is that the rest of the world's business, and if not, what do the rest of the world do? Snub them? Make the U.N. a true world government? Keep toppling regimes until they empower one that we like, even if they want to destroy?
     
  18. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    In Iraq, we just exchanged one evil for another evil. In the end, which one will have the highest body count? The dictatorship or the "democracy" under islamic law?
     

Share This Page

Loading...