Demoniac Possesion

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc, May 2, 2003.

  1. PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc

    PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc
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    Do you believe in demoniac possesion today? Why? There are several baptist pastors who had experiences similar to demoniac possesion in Jesus' days. [​IMG]
     
  2. donnA

    donnA
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    unbelievers, yes.
    believers, no.
    Christians are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit, they can not be demon possed at the sametime, it is impossible for a christian to be demon possesed.
     
  3. time like this

    time like this
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    Kate i agree with you spirit filled beleivers cannot be, however one does not receive the spirit from God at the moment they all beleive. The spirit og God is the gift God as Spirit is the Giver. A demonic spirit can attack and does in these times. Having minister freinds in alot of Penetecostal churches I have had an opportunity to discuss this matter in some detail. Not saying they are the only or best authority only they are more willing to discuss in open forum. Of most of the people that said they had a demon within them I have only beleived a handful.

    I once prayed for a young lady layed hands upon her with oil, and when the service was over she informed me that she felt as though an demonic/evil spirit had left her. She then wanted me to tell her what kind of spirit it was :confused: I told her I didn't know but asked her what ever she didn't feel like doing that's what kind of spirit it was. People often mistake being effected by something as being possesed by something. This topic is not discussed enough so people have good information so as not to be put in bondage from someone elses lack of understanding. Most of my pentecostal freinds are very disciplined in this matter and are very carful not to mis-lead thru false teachings and conjectures.

    God Bless
     
  4. Helen

    Helen
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    Kate is right. According to Paul in Romans, if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you do not belong to Christ! Therefore it is impossible to be a born-again believer and not have the Holy Spirit indwelling you.

    The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
    Romans 8:6-9
     
  5. ChurchBoy

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    How does one know for sure that someone is possessed by a demon and not just suffering from severe phsycological problems? Too often people make hasty assumptions that someone is possessed and needs to be "delivered".
     
  6. tyndale1946

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    How can anyone say that another has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit if they can't tell you?... Or is that God's business and none of ours?

    What about the mentally infirm?... What of the deaf and retarted?... In the past in various cultures and ages these people treated were like the devil gave them birth... Did he?... We all fight what we don't understand and say that is from the devil... The Salem witch trials will prove that... Who was really possessed the people that thought they were God's own or the so called witches?

    I say one that has the Holy Spirit can still act like the devil!... Oh ye foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you?... To say anything less is to say we are all christians 24/7... Are we?... Or do we walk on feet of clay like Peter?... Get thou behind me Satan!... Does the devil cease his work as soon as we are baptised or is he just getting started?

    Do we have the power to cast out devils?... Not the other fellows who we feel needs it in our eyes but our own... We need to cast out the demon ME!... If you are a christian you have plenty past and present... If the devil goes about daily seeking whom he may devour... The christian is the favorite dish on his plate!... Why do we have to mortify the deeds of the flesh if there is not a constant warfare between good and evil?... Where is the battle?... Is it inside outside or both?

    Why would I as a christian say this... Because all are guilty in God's eyes and all sin daily by omission or commission... The scripture teach nothing less and we are cleansed daily from all sins... Which btw has a name and his name is Legion!... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]

    [ May 02, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  7. Harald

    Harald
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    The Galatians, to whom Paul wrote the epistle, were not said to have lived like the devil. Paul asked them who'd bewitched them not to be persuaded by the truth, i.e. the Gospel which Paul had preached to them. They had temporarily strayed from their steadfastness, and were bordering on legalism, perhaps even acting and thinking legalistically. They thought they could secure some blessings from God by legal efforts, but Paul told them God supplies to them the Spirit by the hearing of faith, and not on basis of legal efforts ("works of law"). Paul rebuked them, and those from among them who remained legalistic in some way were manifested as false converts. The true believers in their right element were not legalistic in their mindset and affections, but temporarily there was a possibility for them to stray into a certain degree of legalism. False believers are most often legalistic, and legalism often goes hand in hand with antinomianism. A genuine believer when in the right element is neither antinomian nor legalistic, but grace- and righteousness- and Christ-centered.


    Harald
     
  8. donnA

    donnA
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    time like this,, I'm sorry I disagree, a christian recieves the Holy Spirit the moment they become a chrsitian. The Holy Spirit, according to scripture, is God's seal on the believer, He is our down payment on the promise from God of our future in heaven, He enpowers us to live the christian life, without Him we have non power to live as God wants us too. When we become a new creation, it is the indwelling Holy Spirt that makes us new, without His immedialte indwelling we are not new. We have no ability on our own to live pleaseing to God, to serve Him in His power, no desire to be holy and righteous, no desire to be obedient, which includes the desire to eb baptized. Seems to me you've been obsorbing too much false doctrines and have come to believe them yourself.
     
  9. dianetavegia

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    time like this, you say you are a Baptist Pentacostal and I say that is a conflict of beliefs!

    I fully agree with Helen and Kate. You receive the Holy Spirit as soon as you accept Jesus as Savior and cannot be possessed by any demonic being as a Christian.

    Diane
     
  10. ChurchBoy

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    Most of us agree that a Christian cannot be possessed my a demon. How about non-believers? This is a much more interesting topic. Does this happen? How does it happen? How can the demon be removed if the person is possessed? Again, how do we know a person is demon possessed and not pyscologicially disturbed? Do modern theories of personality disorders address the issue of "demon" possession? Are brain disfunctions the result of "demon" possession OR are they the cause of behavior that we would call "demon possession"?
     
  11. swaimj

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    Luke 8:26-39 tells the story of a demon-possessed man whose demons are cast out by Jesus. There are some elements in the context of Luke 8 which intimate the nature of demon possession.

    In Luke 8, we find Jesus revealing the nature of his coming kingdom through four miracles. In 22-25, he stills the storm foreshadowing the fact that, in his kingdom, he will harness the forces of nature. In 26-39, he casts out the demon. I'll come back to this. In 40-56, Jesus heals a woman of a chronic disease. This forshadows his kingdom in which disease will not exist. He also raises a girl from the dead, again foreshadowing the fact that death will be defeated in his kingdom.

    Taken in this context, if we compare the demon possession with the stories that surround it, several significant things are revealed.

    First, demon possession does not seem to be the result of moral failure on the part of the one possessed or the result of inviting demons into one's self (a la playing with a Oijua board like the little girl in the Exorcist movie). Rather, demon possession seems to be a part of living in a fallen world. It is associated with the fallen creation (natural disasters, sickness, death) rather than with fallen human nature.

    Second, Jesus performed four miracles in this chapter. He stilled the storm, cast out demons, healed the sick, and raised the dead. Which of these do we have the power to perform today? Number 1? Number 3? Number 4? While God can intervene in any situation, we do not have specific power to perform these miracles. I don't think we have the ability to do #2 either.

    Third, the arguments against demon possession among Christians are based upon a model which says that demon possession is the result of sin. But if demon possession is a result of living in a fallen world rather than the result of being fallen people, then it is possible that a Christian could be demon possessed. After all, many godly Christians who have the Holy Spirit indwelling their bodies also have chronic disease indwelling their bodies. And many who have the Holy Spirit have died (the understatement of the day).

    Thinking of demon possession in this way has some huge ramifications for the topic of mental illness, psychological problems, and Christian counseling. I am not totally convinced of the position I have just espoused, but it is thought-provoking. The concepts I have spoken of were first introduced to me in a book by David Powlinson called Power Encounters. For those interested in this topic, the book is a must-read.
     
  12. swaimj

    swaimj
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    Luke 8:26-39 tells the story of a demon-possessed man whose demons are cast out by Jesus. There are some elements in the context of Luke 8 which intimate the nature of demon possession.

    In Luke 8, we find Jesus revealing the nature of his coming kingdom through four miracles. In 22-25, he stills the storm foreshadowing the fact that, in his kingdom, he will harness the forces of nature. In 26-39, he casts out the demon. I'll come back to this. In 40-56, Jesus heals a woman of a chronic disease. This forshadows his kingdom in which disease will not exist. He also raises a girl from the dead, again foreshadowing the fact that death will be defeated in his kingdom.

    Taken in this context, if we compare the demon possession with the stories that surround it, several significant things are revealed.

    First, demon possession does not seem to be the result of moral failure on the part of the one possessed or the result of inviting demons into one's self (a la playing with a Oijua board like the little girl in the Exorcist movie). Rather, demon possession seems to be a part of living in a fallen world. It is associated with the fallen creation (natural disasters, sickness, death) rather than with fallen human nature.

    Second, Jesus performed four miracles in this chapter. He stilled the storm, cast out demons, healed the sick, and raised the dead. Which of these do we have the power to perform today? Number 1? Number 3? Number 4? While God can intervene in any situation, we do not have specific power to perform these miracles. I don't think we have the ability to do #2 either.

    Third, the arguments against demon possession among Christians are based upon a model which says that demon possession is the result of sin. But if demon possession is a result of living in a fallen world rather than the result of being fallen people, then it is possible that a Christian could be demon possessed. After all, many godly Christians who have the Holy Spirit indwelling their bodies also have chronic disease indwelling their bodies. And many who have the Holy Spirit have died (the understatement of the day).

    Thinking of demon possession in this way has some huge ramifications for the topic of mental illness, psychological problems, and Christian counseling. I am not totally convinced of the position I have just espoused, but it is thought-provoking. The concepts I have spoken of were first introduced to me in a book by David Powlinson called Power Encounters. For those interested in this topic, the book is a must-read.
     
  13. time like this

    time like this
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    Diane
    I f you read Acts 8:14-17. YOu will se that the Samaritans had beleived the preached word of the gospel been baptized and had not received the gift of the holy Spirit yet. Let me now explain the preached word is spirit and life, it is this word that leads us to salvation to beleive on him who the Father has sent. So these Samaritans had received the word unto salvation which is all inward and know man can see[the greek word is dechomai] they had not received the Gift from God which is the holy spirit.

    There are two Greek words translated “receive” which must be accurately defined and understood. These words are dechomai and lambano. Dechomai is a subjective reception indicating that by a person’s own decision something spiritual has taken place; lambano is an objective reception indicating that by a person’s decision he manifests outwardly that which has been received inwardly. In other words, to receive spiritually is dechomai, and to receive into manifestation in the senses world is lambano. Thus one can receive something spiritually, dechomai, without receiving it into manifestaion, lambano, in the senses world.

    Example
    Acts 8:14-15 “received is used
    Now when the apostles…heard that the Samaria had received [dechomai-spiritually] the word of God [in other words, they were spiritually saved, for they believed according to verse 12 and 13], they sent them to Peter and John:
    Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive [lambano-manifest in the senses world] the Holy Ghost [pneuma hag ion “power from on high”]

    So can a person beleive and not have the gift of the holy spirit what does scripture say. to many people think they are demonicaly possesed and they are actually uinder the influence of their own desires. We often move to quickly to say a person has demons and they really need to take ownership of their own ungoldly desires as talked about in James ch.1

    How can i be Baptist and Pentecostal? there are have dozens of different Baptist doctrines and each has group says theirs is most correct. I have found the same with Pentecostals. In the long run the man preaching is telling the truth or a lie regarless of what is written on the front og the building. How many false men say they have been called by God to preach and have not been? This false teacher will not only go to non-Baptist churches but Baptist included. There are certain foundational truths that are not left up to interpetation like how we are to be saved. I have not found complete truth in any one denomination there will always be something fall-able about what man does.

    Can a spirit filled beleiver be possesed? No.
    Maybe we know to many informed people instead of beleiving people to tell the difference of who is saved and spirit filled.

    God Bless
     
  14. PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc

    PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc
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    [There are two Greek words translated “receive” which must be accurately defined and understood. These words are dechomai and lambano. Dechomai is a subjective reception indicating that by a person’s own decision something spiritual has taken place; lambano is an objective reception indicating that by a person’s decision he manifests outwardly that which has been received inwardly. In other words, to receive spiritually is dechomai, and to receive into manifestation in the senses world is lambano. Thus one can receive something spiritually, dechomai, without receiving it into manifestaion, lambano, in the senses world.
    ] [/QUOTE]

    First of all, than you all for your posts; I really appreciate your interest.
    I see in the Bible that a true born-again believer could not be possesed; my question is in the area of unbelievers.

    Thime like This, I believe we can not make an absolute difference between DECHOMAI and LAMBANO; you can see an Greek-English concordance to note that dechomai is used also to receive PEOPLE (Matt. 10:14,40,41; 11:14; 18:5) who are in the senses world. Even in Acts 21:17, dechomai is used to receive people and letters in Acts 22:5; 28:21.
    On the other hand, LAMBANO is used to receive the Holy Spirit in the very moment of becoming saved: Galatians 3:2 shows that now believers receive the Holy Spirit by hearing with faith.
    John explained that after Jesus' glorification all what believe receive (lambano) the Holy Spirit (John 7:39).
    Even the Corinthians in spite of some carnal believers were temple of the Holy Spirit (I Cor. 6:19-20).
    The key is understand that Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 are extraordinary events for different kind of people, after those events, all work under the rule of Gal. 3:2, John 7:39 and Eph. 1:13-14.

    Thanks again, I am still waiting for more posts.
     
  15. time like this

    time like this
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    Peru

    I agree with you in reference to Gal3:2 and eph.1:13-14. Faith cometh by hearing of the word. My purpose in my first post and referance to the Samaritians having not received the gift of the Holy Spirit into manifestation was just a point of obserevation.

    Yes the unbeleiver can be demonicaly possesed because they do not have the seal of the Holy Spirit of God. The blood secures our salvation and where this remmision is no demonic spirit can overcome. Do you know of pastors that say they have demons? Dechomai= we receive the word by faith and are saved. Jesus as the word is a gift from God Jn3:16 he said in Jn14:16-17,26 that the comforter would come another[being the same like him]. Regardless the unbeleiver has no access to protect them from possesion. Beleivers cannont be overtaken from within only affected from ouside influences. They have to believe the Gospel it is the power of God unto salvation.

    Thanks peru sorry if I strayed from the topic.

    Time
     
  16. PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc

    PeruSeminary Pastor Enoc
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    Sorry if I was not clear; when I said that "baptist pastors had experiences similiar to demoniac possesion..." I mean THEY HAD TO PRAY on behalf of people with those troubles. Later, the pastors speak about those cases. [​IMG]
     

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