Demons and Satan

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by horsegal16, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. horsegal16

    horsegal16
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    What are your views of hell, Satan, and his demons?
     
  2. Helen

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    they're all quite real and I don't plan on viewing them at all!
     
  3. canadyjd

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    :laugh: :applause: :laugh:

    peace to you:praying:
     
  4. saturneptune

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    hot man hot
     
  5. amity

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    Let me flesh this question out with one of my own.

    Lately I have heard several versions of the following story:

    Satan originally was an angel named Lucifer (somewhat troubling because Lucifer means "lightbearer" or "morning star"!) Lucifer's grave fault was pride. At some point he led a rebellion of other angels in heaven. Christ fought him as leader of the good angels, and Satan/Lucifer lost and was cast down to hell, where he and his angels (now demons) will have dominion of all the souls of those condemned to hell for all eternity, tormenting them everlastingly.

    I have been trying to match up this piece of folklore to the Bible for some time now without very much success. I think it must come from Dante or Milton. Not that they weren't good guys, but they wrote FICTION after all.

    Nonetheless there is some biblical basis for much of this in disparate verses which, if strung together in a certain (perhaps non-scriptural) order, might give some support to this story. What is the sum total of Bible teachings on Satan's origins? What does the Bible really teach about hell? Does anyone know how Satan came to be associated with Lucifer? In the KJV there is one mention of Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12) and it is apparent that he is a pagan god, not Satan. Are there other mentions in other Bible versions? Are "the devil" and Satan even the same person (Rev. 20:2)? Are demons just Satan's angels of Matt 25:41 and II Peter 3:5? Are hell and the Lake of Fire the same place (Rev. 20:14)? Are the lost to be sent to "hell" or the "lake of fire"?

    I am asking for scriptural exigesis. I suspect our view of Satan, hell, demons, etc., is often no more scripturally accurate than our image of people in heaven being transformed into angles floating on clouds and playing harps!
     
    #5 amity, Feb 10, 2007
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  6. Aaron

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    Satan is a fallen angel, and so is a demon.

    Hell is a place of torment created for Satan and the demons. They are not there yet.
     
  7. Amy.G

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    Satan being expelled from heaven is not folklore. Jesus said: "I saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven." Luke 10:18
     
  8. Scarlett O.

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    Revelation 12:7-9

    "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
     
  9. benz

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    Some precieve that demons and fallen angels are two different entities. Demons being spirts of nephlims from noahs time (offspring of human and fallen angels), while fallen angels are angels that rebelled against god either by siding with lucifer or by consumating with women. Maybe they worked for lucifer and wanted to corrupt the whole human race so the mecciah would not be born. I do not think satan or his angels or demons will be tormenting people in hell, this is a myth. I believe satan and his angels as well as demons will be tormented as anyone else who makes their homes in hell.
     
  10. amity

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    Who is Lucifer? I don't find that name used in scripture to refer to Satan.

    And how do we know that the nephilim were fallen angels?

    Like you, I suspect maybe fallen angels and demons are two different entities. Also, I don't see Satan and demons tormenting the condemned taught in the Bible.

    Don't get me wrong, there may be passages I haven't found yet, but so far I have not been able to piece together this vision of events from scripture. That is why I think it originated with Dante and/or Milton.

    And Scarlett, that passage to me makes it seem that Satan and the devil (serpent) are two different entities. Can you or anyone else elaborate on how it reads in the Greek and if the meaning is a little clearer
     
  11. EAGLE8

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    The Devil Is Stupid And Has No Power Of His Own!!

    yes! Satan Is Real And The Church Needs To Be "aware" Of Him... But
    But Not Affraid Of Him!


    The Word Says;"give No Place .... To The Devil!!"

    The Only Power Satan Has, Is The Power That "we Give To Him!"

    Some Preachers Have Gotten So Demon Conscience .... That They
    Are No Longer "God Conscience!"

    The Word Says; "resist The Devil... And He Will Flee From You!!"

    "and For This Purpose ... Was The Son Of Man Made Manifest,...
    That He Might Destroy... The Works Of The Devil!" Jesus Did Not
    Come To Pacify The Devil! He Did Not Come To Teach About, Or Sing
    About, Or Even Give Him A Headache!! " He Came To Destroy The Works
    Of The Devil!!!"

    Come On Church... Let's Put Satan Under Our Feet... And Do What
    Jesus Did!

    If We Will... Then We Will See What Jesus Saw!!

    'the Whole Earth Growneth... And Travaileth... For The Manifest-
    Ation... Of The "sons Of God!" Get Back Devil!! Here Comes The Bride!!

    "In Christ... Is Life! "
     
  12. Scarlett O.

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    Well, I did teach English, though I don't claim to be an expert. :laugh:

    I see the phrase "that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan," as meaning that old serpent has two names....devil and satan. Also the use of "his" and "he" in the second clause of that sentence implies a singular person.

    I just did a quick review at biblegateway.com and looked at the verse in a few other translations and they say "the Devil or Satan".

    They have other languages at that website. I'll try to get the Greek for you.
     
  13. amity

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    Yep, you're right. I see now that the first part of that compound subject would have no predicate if it referred to a different person! Did I get that right, English teacher?

    Thanks for your help.

    Still would like to see every scripture referring to Satan/devil, hell/Lake of fire, or fallen angels/demons, so please help out, anyone!
     
  14. Rex77

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    Isa 14:4 ¶ That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!


    Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


    Here I see God speaking to Lucifer (satan) through the King of Babylon,
    the same as Jesus spoke to to Satan through Peter.

    Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.



    Regarding Hell and the Lake of fire.

    Hell is the remand centre till the Great White throne, when the lost will be judged, and hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

    Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
     
  15. canonman20d

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    What are your views of hell, Satan, and his demons?

    Well, first off lets take Hell. I see it as a place for sinners, those who have rejected God an his plan of salvation. God made hell for that very thing. Guess I need to ask a question here I know many of you have kids or step-kids whatever the case maybe......Now think of how much you love those kids.....Ok now let's say your only son and kid had to go through what Jesus did. the beatings,the spitting upon him,the trial,the agony in the garden and being nailed on a cross. What if you were God in all his power. an all you could do is sit an watch an do nothing as your only son bled an died on a wooden cross for all. Even the one's that killed him an he looked up at you square in the eye with blood an sweat burning in his eyes an to you said......"Father forgive them for they know not what they do." an you watched him die. I'm not God. I'm only a human that God has forgiven an made me a child of his through his son an grace. He has given us that gift all we have to do is accept it an live a christian life. We will never be perfect here but we can ALWAYS strive for prefection. With that said if that was your son would you have created Hell? I know I would you better believe that.
    As far as my views on Satan I know he is very real. The Bible tell us that an if ya believe the Bible you have to believe in Satan. A person that don't. in the famous words of Bugs Bunny "Whata Maroon". Is all I can say. Satan is trying to take over the world more an more everyday. an he does not appear to us as some ugly creature with cloven feet an horns. He will often appear to us as the answer to all our problems. all we have to do is sin against God just a little not much of course. that's how we got where we are today an being a very passive nation on alot of issues. We are falling as a nation an Satan is with great happiness for it to. anytime he can get you to sin against God. no matter what it is from a lie. to being the next killer,rapist,cult leader,abortionist it does'nt matter he looks up at God an smiles an says "There's another one for the home team!!" what's really sad is His church is also growing more everyday yes he has churches just like we do an a church website www.churchofsatan.com He has worshippers Just as God does. We even have groups that do his work for him. People in our goverment state an national. groups that support them. an major corporations that support them. I also believe he uses his demons in his work. I have talked to some christians that don't believe in demons. I feel strongly about demon possession I think that is in the news alot. we just don't recognize it as much. or we just blow it off because they don't fit the description of Linda Blair from the movie The Exorcist or look like that. As Satan would be they don't want us to see them as what they really are. They want us to see them as "just crazy" an nothing more. What we have to do as christians is Be All We Can Be. For God an Jesus Christ read his word each an everyday,pray for one another,Go to church and believe with all our hearts. I really don't feel we have that much longer till Jesus is going to split that eastern sky an we will be outta here. please talk to and witness to people as much as you can till then. an take some people with you God knows we can't catch'em all but let's fill our buckets with as many as we can get. praise be to God in the highest.

    canonman20d :godisgood:
     
  16. Rex77

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    Amity Quote
    ----------------------------------
    Let me flesh this question out with one of my own.

    Lately I have heard several versions of the following story:

    Satan originally was an angel named Lucifer (somewhat troubling because Lucifer means "lightbearer" or "morning star"!)
    --------------------------------------------------------


    Don't believe that story Jesus is the "morning Star"

    Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. KJV.


    Although the NIV calls satan the morning star.

    Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! ( NIV.)

    How could you have that NIV reading then sing the hymn "He's the lilly of the valley the bright and morning star"
     
  17. Jon-Marc

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    They are of no concern to me since "He who is within me is greater than he who is in the world".
     
  18. amity

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    Rex - What makes you think Lucifer in Isa 14:12 is Satan? This has become something of a pet peeve of mine and I would like to know where this comes from. If it is from something in the Bible well and good, but so far I don't see it.
     
  19. IronWill

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    The CoS(Church of Satan) doesn't worship Satan.

    And aren't there certain angels that are kept in chains? What about them? Where do they come into play?
     
  20. Rex77

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    Amity


    Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    No earthly king can ascend into heaven, read also Eze 28 where God addresses satan through the king of Tyre.

    Ezekiel 28.
    12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

    This is a discription of satan before his fall.

    Whereas the Prince of Tyre in Eze 28.2 is a man, but the King can only be satan,lucifer,serpent,deciever,the dragon, or any one of his names.God calls him.
     
    #20 Rex77, Feb 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2007

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