Demons

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HisWitness, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    since im made a post on what i believe the word Satan means--lets now discuss the word Demons.

    what does the word Demons actually mean ??since i dont believe in angels falling from heaven,lets look at a scripture that i believe tells exactly what the word demons is referring to.

    Deuteronomy 28-15 starts listing the cursings the people would receive for not keeping God's commandments--all sorts of physical and mental illness and sickness--look at them closely and you can relate all of them to the new testament when Jesus was healing and casting out (Demons).

    here is a short info on the subject:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::




    DEMONS



    It is commonly understood that mandates of King James heavily influenced the translation that we know as the King James Version. What is not commonly known is that he was obsessed with demonology, had written a book on the subject, and was considered to be the leading authority on the subject. Therefore, we must consider the possibility that what is commonly understood of demons is not so much scriptural, as the product of tradition. This becomes even more likely when consulting various Greek lexicons, concerning the Greek term "diamonia." One will find that the definitions are steeped in "satanism," which we have shown to be false.



    "According to passages in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), Satan has a personal army of demons to assist him in attacking humans and accomplishing evil tasks. They roam the world looking for people that they may destroy. The Gospels and the book of Acts describe many exorcisms where Jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession. The Bible implies that demons are the same fallen angels that once joined Satan in a heavenly revolt. By the 1st century CE in Palestine, many mental disorders were believed to be caused by indwelling demons. Other demons were responsible for bad weather, accidents, etc."



    The above quote is the first paragraph of an article entitled "Demons" at "religioustolerance.org." It is quoted here, as it reflects the common understanding of demons. As is the common practice, the stated facts are loosely associated with the scriptures, with no scriptural evidence being offered. Where is it stated that "Satan" is a fallen angel, who was joined by a supporting cast of rebellious angels? Where is it stated that "Satan" has a personal army of demons to assist him in his work of attacking humans and accomplishing evil?



    The Greek term "daimonia" is a synonym of "diabolos." Synonyms are words that have similar or identical meanings. The Hebrew translators of the Septuagint used "diamonia" in place of the Hebrew "shed" (sed). This Hebrew term "shed" referred to the recipient of any offering, other than the God of Israel. Hence, it referred to gods of wood and stone.



    Deuteronomy 32:17
    17 "They sacrificed to demons (shed) who were not God,

    To gods whom they have not known,

    New gods who came lately,

    Whom your fathers did not dread.



    Psalms 106:37

    37 They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons (shed),



    Prior to the Babylonian captivity, the children of Israel had no understanding of the entities we know as "Satan," "the Devil," or "demons." These concepts came to them with their close association of the religion of the pagan Babylonian culture, in which they were held captive.



    Demons



    In general we may say the OT knows no demons with whom one may have dealings in magic even for the purpose of warding them off. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Copyright © 1972-1989 By Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.



    Understanding the scriptural use of the term "diamonia" can only be accomplished by stepping into the shoes of those, to whom the scriptures were originally addressed. When we do this, we find that "demons" were introduced into the "Jewish" culture during their captivity in Babylon, and was later refined by their exposure to the Greek philosophers.



    "A basic animism underlies the Greek dai/mwn concept. This persisted amongst the Greeks. In the historical period especially it was obviously combatted by educated and especially philosophical circles from which we draw almost all our knowledge of all levels of Gk. thought. Y

    Again, especially in the tragic dramatists, it denotes d. "anything which overtakes man," such as destiny, or death, or any good or evil fortune,...chance. It can also be used generally for "fate,"

    3. The Influence of Popular Religion on the Philosophical Systems.

    In the above presentation dai/mwn is philosophically understood as a general divine power and thus incorporated into the stream of Greek thinking. Yet philosophy could not stop at this. It was unable to carry through with full consistency its understanding of the world as a ko/smo$ of abstract forces. It also introduced dai/mone$ as personal intermediary beings. This was helpful in the attack on myths and in their explanation. Oriental influences were also at work, as was the need for a theodicy. But the formulation of the doctrine of dai/mone$ as controlling and disposing forces was mainly determined by the popular belief which we can here see at work and which can be largely reconstructed from the philosophical conceptions.21 Thus Plutarch refers to the )Ala/store$ as an example of evil demons (Def. Orac., 14. II, 417d).

    A first instance of the influence of popular belief is to be seen in the fact that philosophy, too, sets heroes alongside demons. In popular belief it is hard to separate the two. Perhaps they are one and the same, as some philosophers assume. More specifically, however, the development led to a separate class of h%rwe$. The idea of intermediary beings was more systematically worked out in the course of time, and in the Neo-Platonists we thus find several classes of intermediaries. In philosophy the main task of these beings is to be messengers between the gods and men, i.e., to exercise supervision over men.....This leads Porphyrius to the view that everything in nature is controlled by demons.24

    In the more detailed development of the doctrine that demons are intermediary beings, regard is had to popular belief at three specific points. First, it is noteworthy that demons are brought into special connexion with those parts of the cultus and religion which are closest to animism, i.e., with magic and incantations. We can see this even before Plato in Empedocles,25 and Xenocrates in particular traces back the apotropaic cult to evil demons,26 while Stoicism attributes Manticism to demons...In Xenocrates there emerges already a distinction between the higher forms of religion and the lower and more popular forms with which demons or evil demons are connected. In the developed form of



    Demons



    this conception demons are forces which seek to divert from true worship, as in Porphyr....At an earlier stage already Apuleius De Deo Socr., 14 had traced back the cults of individual peoples to demons,28 also ascribing unworthy myths to them (cf. Plutarch).

    Secondly, it is to be noted that the demons as rulers of human destiny are specifically connected with misfortune and distress. This hurtful sway of demons is made to serve a positive goal in Corp.

    Thirdly, many philosophical systems have assimilated the doctrine of demon possessing men. Extraordinary conditions are popularly ascribed to indwelling deities, especially in

    the tragic dramatists and e.g. Hippocrates.30 This was called daimona=n or daimoni/zesqai, a view which is developed in Porphyrius Abst., II, 36 ff.31 to the effect that evil demons clothe themselves with flesh and blood in the human body to kindle evil desires. But Plutarch already speaks plainly of demons which undermine virtue in Dio, 2, 3 (I, 958e).

    Philosophy incorporated these intermediaries into its system and world view by ascribing pa/qh to demons35 and by giving at least to evil demons a location close to the earth. The doctrine that demons are e)mpaqei=$ is old, going back at least as far as Empedocles.36 According to Plato37 it was worked out by Xenocrates,38 and was shared by Chrysippus as well as Posidonius, and by Plutarch as well as Apuleius and the Neo-Platonists.39 Similarly, we already find the idea of their location in the air in the Epinomis.40 This is greatly expanded in connexion with the pa/qh doctrine,41 and is then incorporated by the Neo-Platonists into a great system of intermediaries which become the more imperfect and wicked the closer they approximate to earth.42 Thus the demons become spatial, and their place in the great ladder from God to man and spirit to matter is that of beings which are superior to man but still imperfect. Their imperfection does not affect their relative divinity. Their wickedness is not simply that of an implacably and causelessly evil will; it is due to their link with matter, and may thus be regarded as an impulsion by cravings which are only too familiar to man, whether in the form of envy, or a self-seeking desire for honour, or the thirst for blood and the odour of sacrifice.43 Although this view of the pa/qh and location of demons corresponds to the impulse of Greek thinking, it is simply a reflection of the popular view of spirits. In animistic belief spirits are radically incalculable, and their operations are conceived after the analogy of men and their passions; they are easily provoked to wrath and envy."

    Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Copyright © 1972-1989 By Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.



    The children of Israel rightly associated the physical and mental handicaps among them with sin, as were the result of the curses that God, through Moses, had stated would come upon them if they rebelled against Him and pursued other gods.



    Demons
     
  2. HisWitness

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    It is a well-known phenomenon in the history of religions that the gods of one nation become the devils of its neighbors and enemies." International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia.

    Associating these infirmities with false gods led to these entities having servants to do their will. The "Jews," rather than recognizing their sin, came to believe that demons came through relationships between heavenly angels and the daughters of men. Rabbinic Judaism held that demons were the result of relationships Adam had with feminine spirits and those of Eve with masculine spirits. This is in direct violation of God's command that each species would only reproduce after its own kind (Gen. 1).



    Another fact to be considered is that the scriptures only mention "demons," as possessing agents, in the context of Israel. The term is only used eight times outside the gospels. James, speaking to his Hebrew brethren, used the term once, John, in the Revelation, which is an account of the
    Demons



    demise of the Hebrew system, used the term three times. Paul used the term four times in 1 Corinthians 10. Paul's use of the term was in the context of the Hebrew "sed" - a recipient of an offering other than the God of Israel - therefore, his reference was obviously to paganism (false gods and false doctrines).



    1 Corinthians 10:20, 21

    20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.

    21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.



    When the curses of Deuteronomy 28 are compared with the miracles of healing that Jesus performed, we find that "demons" were merely diseases of body and mind. In the case of the man known as Legion, modern science has discovered many cases that have been diagnosed as "multi-personality disorder."



    Mark 5:9

    9 And He was asking him, "What is your name?" And he said to Him, "My name is Legion; for we are many."



    The lunatic boy of Matthew 17 most likely suffered from epilepsy.



    Matthew 17:15

    15 "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic, and is very ill; for he often falls into the fire, and often into the water.



    The gospels clearly use the term "demons" in reference to insanity.



    Matthew 11:18

    18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon!'



    They did not hold John to be "demon" possessed, but as being deranged of mind.



    John 7:19, 20

    19 "Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?"

    20 The multitude answered, "You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?"



    In the above text, the phrase "you have a demon" is obviously a reference to Jesus talking crazy, i.e., "you're out of your mind."



    John 10:20

    20 And many of them were saying, "He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?"



    Demons



    The implication of the above verse is obvious - to have a "demon" is to be insane.



    John 8:44-52

    44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.

    45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

    46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?

    47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

    48 The Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?"

    49 Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.

    50 "But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges.

    51 "Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."

    52 The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he shall never taste of death.'



    The above text is obviously in reference to Jesus' perceived mental state.



    James 2:19

    19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.



    In the above text, James was speaking to his Hebrew brethren. While modern religion regards his reference to "demons," as being evil imps that are under the direction of "Satan," the context suggests otherwise. The phrase "God is one" referenced a common declaration among the "Jews" known as the "Shema Israel."



    Deuteronomy 6:4

    4 "Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!



    What are the gods that are not the one God of Israel? Are they not the false gods of the pagans? These gods were representative of those who worshipped them, and are the "diamonia," which is a synonym of "diabolos" - the false accusers and slanderers.



    Revelation 9:20

    20 And the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;



    Throughout the scriptures, only two gods are worshipped - the God of Israel and false gods. Therefore, the reference to "demon worship" was in regard to false gods.



    Demons
     
  3. DHK

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    Simply put, your authority is no longer the Bible it is "the history of religions."
    That is sad.
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:
     
  5. Bronconagurski

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    HisWitness, it's been awhile

    since I have heard a Baptist the denies God's word as much as you do. The maniac was possessed by demons and his insanity came from them. If he were just mentally ill, then Jesus would have merely healed him like he did the blind or deaf. But Jesus sent the demons into a herd of swine. Notice the demons knew who Jesus was, and they spoke. What you assert is certainly wrong biblically, and it does not make sense physically either. Use a little horse sense and you will not make these ridiculous statements. I am wary of what spirit is feeding you these lies. The very one you don't believe in may well be sifting you like wheat. Dr. Wilmington always says the greatest feat of the devil is to convince people he does not exist. Hook, line and sinker in your case, I am afraid. I do not say this with joy in the least and pray for you.
     
  6. Aaron

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    Hey, I found some truth in that sesspool of verbosity.
     
  7. HisWitness

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    what really is sad that so called christians of today are worshippers of idols and false gods.and just as in the beginning man is still trying to make excuses for his wickedness and sin by blaminh some entity that doesnt exist--its always been mankind thats beed wicked and sinful--SIN was brought in the world by Adam(man)

    as far as me not believeing the bible at least i find a foundation thats in the scriptures and you cant do that with a so called fallen angel from heaven with his demons with himfind the proof of that in scriptures of that even taking place and i will go back to worshipping idols and false gods as the rest :)
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    Friend,

    No one supports your ideas.....nobody.A half truth is error. You are turning away from scriptures that say the exact opposite of your posts.The bible speaks of angels, elect angels and fallen ones.
     
  9. HisWitness

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    Friend your the one that cant show scriptural evidence of what you are saying--you have not offered 1 scripture to show there was an angel fell from heaven named Satan--the whole doctrine is based upon speculation and not TRUTH---if it is scriptural then pls by all means show me in scripture of that happening :)all that is shown here is scripture that has the word Satan in it and assumptions are made it must be that fallen angel guy:)
     
  10. saturneptune

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    I work in an adult day care in retirement. I also know Scripture speaks of demons and angels as distinct spiritual beings that do exist in a very real way, as real as we do. It is good to see we agree on something.

    I believe there are people possessed by demons today in some cases. Also, I do not think it would be really hard to distinguish those from folks who are mentally challanged on their own.

    This is not to say that all sin and evil acts in this world are caused by demons or Satan, but some certainly are. Some our caused by our own inherent sinfulness.

    I do not have a Bible handy at the moment, but I cannot understand where HisWitness is getting his theories from, with references in Revelation to Satan falling from heaven, and one of the OT books also.

    Isaiah 14:12 (King James Version)

    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    NIV

    12 How you have fallen from heaven,
    O morning star, son of the dawn!
    You have been cast down to the earth,
    you who once laid low the nations!

    This is another clue 14 "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."

    2 Corinthians 11:5-15

    There was only one reference to Lucifer as already given. A lot of bible study appears to be fitting together assorted pieces rather than direct statements.
     
  11. HisWitness

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    i have in the other thread made mention of the falling from heaven statement--an example of this is King of babylon in the old testament which was (Nebby)

    How that God took the Glory,Honor,Might that he had given him away(fallen from heaven)and gave him Shame,Contempt,Condemnation(cast down to the earth,hell)all because Nebby stop giving God the Glory for what was being accomplished by his hand and lifted his self up with pride and gave his self the glory--God cast him down like a wild beast before all the people and nations round about him in his day--read the story my friends--and take that kind of language for what it really is saying:) it was not literal in being cast out of God's Abode at all :)
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    I wonder who is the "His" of whom you are a witness ? I find you to be the among the strongest testifiers that Satan does not exist, nor do demons, and that is exactly what he wants people to think.
    If I were to take you seriously the next logical things I would do are:

    1 Throw away my Bible. After all, according to you, it amounts to nothing more than a book written to cater to the whims and beliefs and inclinations of an earthly king whose poo smells just as bad as mine, and yours;
    2. Question the existence of God Himself. For without an antithesis to evil, what is the use of worshipping anything holy ?
    3. Let go of my basest desires and live my life according to my whims and desires, after all, how do I know the concept of heaven and a living God, of sin and accountabilities, are true and "scriptural" (if there is such a word at all, given your reasonings). Like Pau saidl, if you will allow my quoting from a book written to satisfy an earthly king rumored by many to be both homosexual and sexually "active" (in today's stupid parlance) if in this life only we have hope of a resurrection we are most miserable of all men (not exactly verbatim, but who cares, eh ?).
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    PS to my previous post to "His (?) witness":

    oh, by the way, I would be most grateful if you will pay for my psychological evaluation and polygraph.
    You see, I have personally witnessed possessions and paranormal activities myself in my country, the Philippines, which by the way is a country where the majority worship images made of stones and wood.
    Have you ever seen a localized thunderstorm, complete with flashes of lightning and rumbles of thunder and strong wind, and when I mean localized, I mean confined to the parameters of a house built on about 100 sq m of land inside of which is a skinny young man who throws four burly 200 pound or so men trying to hold him down, with just one motion of his arms and legs ?
    nah, that's cinematic, right ?
    who knows, I might be a big fan of king james. lol.
    or have you ever seen a ragged, dusty, young man walk into your church to confront your pastor who was preaching and tell him that he is there to destroy the pastor, and when this young man regains composure he has no idea where he was and the last thing he knows is that he was mixing cement manually in a construction site fifteen miles away from your church, and this was confirmed by his foreman and fellow workers who saw him walk away ?
    nah, nah.
    more cinematic, right ?
     
  14. Aaron

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    I would like to see you answer the following post:

     
  15. HisWitness

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    Hold on for a sec---dont confuse your mis-understanding to be mine--i never said i didnt believe in Satan--i said i didnt believe Satan was a fallen angel from God's abode--Satan was real in the old and new testament but different men and things at different times--Satan is a word denoting Adversaries in the times of the lifes of the people of the bible:)
     
  16. HisWitness

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    the evil has always been through mankind--for God has also created evil for his purpose and glory
     
  17. HisWitness

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    in Deut 28--lists the cursings that God would give people for disobeying his commandments--read them all-1 of them is MADNESS--there is something that is documented that is called multi-personality complex--more than 1 personality in the person :) those personalities were cast into the swine and the MADNESS(Demons) came out of the person and drove the swine into MADNESS--Demons were not fallen angels from God's abode,but were part of the mental and physical cursings on Deut 28 :)
     
  18. HisWitness

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    my friend God of Heaven controls weather and when you get a person cornered and no way out the strengh of that person is outstanding when his life is on the line :)

    young man had another personality complex--mental disorder(MADNESS)

    and by the way GOD of Heaven gives these to people :)
     
  19. Aaron

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    As you were asked by another in this thread, if the multiple personalities weren't real entities, why not simply correct the wiring in the guy's head?
     
  20. HisWitness

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    now we are getting into the method in which Christ chose to use--He knows best on how to do things the way he chooses--not up to us to question which way is best or not :)
     

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