Denominations that are into Calvinism

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ben W, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    O.k here goes my first ever post in the Calvanism / Armininanism forum. :D

    I have been trying to get a handle on what all the fuss is about with this to no avail really, although I am starting to get what the major points of each are.

    What I was amazed to discover is that my own denomination the Seventh Day Baptist Church have historically been into Calvanism to some degree. How much this has changed over time i have no idea of.

    So anyway it has lead me to thinking about how many denominations were birthed in Calvanism, and how many are practising it today?

    Lil Sister in her introduction pointed me to the New Covenant Baptists of 1640 to today. See there website here.

    http://www.solochristo.com/

    Can anyone point me in the direction of any other groups that practice this?
     
  2. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    36
    Here's a first attempt. I am sure that others can add to this.

    Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
    Association of Reformed Baptist Churches
    Calvinistic Methodist Church
    Christian Reformed Church
    Evangelical Presbyterian Church
    Free Reformed Church
    Orthodox Presbyterian Church
    Presbyterian Church in America
    Presbyterian Reformed Church
    Reformed Church in the US
    Reformed Presbyterian Church, North America
    Southern Baptist Convention(Founder's Churches)
    United Reformed Churches
     
  3. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
    Primitive Baptists
     
  4. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow, seems like quite a few.

    Can I trouble you further for details of those that are International and in Australia?
     
  5. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Primitive Baptist are not Calvinist, we believe in spirit regeneration. Calvinism and Arminianism both teach gospel regeneration. www.pb.org
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvinism certainly does teach spirit regeneration. That is the only kind there is. The difference between calvinism and PB is what you do with the biblical teaching that regeneration does not come apart from the communication of the message of salvation in Jesus Christ. PBs reject that; Calvinists accept it.
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Errr...Pastor Larry, where is the scripture that says you cannot be saved unless you hear the Gospel message, or at least, words to that effect ?

    To my mind, the problem is that for us PB's, or at least, a very big majority of us, we believe in Gospel salvation which is salvation in time, different and apart from eternal salvation. We just don't buy Gospel regeneration, whereas, for the Calvinist and the Arminian there is but one salvation.
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,140
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ben, it appears there are at least a few Reformed or New Covenant Baptists, Christian Reformed, Free Reformed, and Evangelical Presbyterians in Australia.

    Concerning Primitive Baptists, I would like to offer a few remarks: (1) though most Primitive Baptists prefer to not be called "Calvinists", in just the common & general understanding of the term (holding the five points), they are; and (2) some Primitive Baptists, though a minority, reject conditional time salvation and hold to only one salvation, solely by grace.

    P.S. [I also prefer to not be called "Calvinist", but accept that most people generally see me as such]
     
  9. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, since everyone else has veered off the subject, I guess I will too.

    Bro. Vaughn, note that in most PB churches, if someone proclaims themselves to be a Calvinist, in the true sense of the word, they will be run out of the church.(after much labor, of course.)

    Also note that the true 5th point of Calvinism is perseverance of the saints, which every good Primitive Baptist will reject; though some of us make it conform by changing it to preservation of the saints.

    We would also reject being from the roots of Calvinism, of course that's another thread.
     
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,140
    Likes Received:
    25
    Bro. Reed, my point is not to make an extended argument that Primitive Baptists are Calvinists; just noting that most people are not concerned with the fine points and roughly divide people into either Arminian or Calvinist camps. In that kind of scenario, PB's are "Calvinists".

    This sounds like an interesting book on the Five Points of Calvinism.

    Bro. Ben W., the first Seventh Day Baptist church in America departed from the Newport church over the sabbath issue, and would have been considered "Calvinists". Also what is supposed to be the first Baptist church formed in Australia (Hobart Town, 1835) was led by a "strict Calvinist", Henry Dowling.
     
  11. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rivaughn,

    Thankyou for your work there, I am always interested in any type of history concerning the Seventh Day Baptist Church. Thankyou for those links, I am off the give them a run now. [​IMG]
     
  12. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you referring to the Reformed Church in America?
    I can't find a denomination called the RCUS.

    The RCA, however, was founded in the US in 1628, which makes it the oldest protestand denomination with a continuing line. (the church founded in 1628 in NYC is still in operation today).
     
  13. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,140
    Likes Received:
    25
    John, there is a small denomination called the Reformed Church in the United States, surviving through some who held out of the merger that created the Evangelical & Reformed Church (now United Church of Christ) in 1934. See Handbook of Denominations (11th edition, p. 314), and this website - www.rcus.org - for more information.
     
  14. Daniel David

    Daniel David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    How about these?

    1 Cor. 1:18-21
    Romans 10:14-17

    I keep posting these and the PB's never answer. Can't imagine why. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rom 10:14-17; 1 Cor 1; 1 Peter 1; several others.

    We should note that "hear" is a reference to communication. It does not preclude deaf people from salvation. It does not preclude belief through understanding a written medium

    There is but one salvation for all of us. To believe in an eternal salvation (i.e., salvation outside of time) belies the comments of Scripture that talk about the unsaved coming to salvation. That makes no sense is they are saved before time. In this, you confuse election before and outside of time with actual salvation. The elect must come to salvation (2 Tim 2:10). I agree with election before time. I cannot agree with salvation before time because I cannot find it in Scripture.
     
  16. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to 1 Corinthians 1:21, those who are saved by the foolishness of preaching are those who believe. Just three verses before, in verse 18, Paul clearly says that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing, but the power of God unto us which are saved. Only those who have been saved by the grace of God, born of His Spirit, appreciate the Gospel of their salvation. In Romans 1:16, Paul is teaching the very same thing. He says that he was ready to preach the Gospel to the church at Rome. Why? So they could "get saved?" No, because they were. "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (v.17) In verse 12, Paul told the brethren that he was longing to be with them and be comforted by the mutal faith (faith to faith) that he had with them. He did not long to go to Rome to breed sheep, but feed sheep. For example, Paul told the Corinthians, "By which also (the Gospel) ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 1:2) There is a Gospel salvation enjoyed by the children of God in this world through the preaching of the Gospel, but it is not the same as the eternal salvation Jesus accomplished for us at Calvary. Pastor Larry, no Primitive Baptist believes that the elect were saved before time. By "eternal," we do not mean before the foundation of the world, but after this life is over, which is the same thing you believe. I think the terminology confused you. Paul told us to "work out" our salvation because God "works in" us. Our salvation, or deliverance, in time through the Gospel is the outworking of our eternal salvation. Here is an illustration that Elder Sonny Pyles gave when he preached one time.

    Abraham Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation in the 1800's that set the slaves free LEGALLY. That would be our eternal salvation at Calvary. Jesus died so that we could live with Him in glory. Lincoln sent out messengers to proclaim to the slaves that they had been set free. God has been sending out messengers for the past 2000 years to proclaim to His people that they have been set free by the once and for all sacrifice of His Son. It was not until the slaves heard the message proclaiming their deliverance that they were actually, experimentally, and practically set free. That is the Gospel. We are the servants of sin until we hear the Gospel of our salvation. And of course a prerequisite for that is being born again.

    Hope that helps. Another good Gospel salvation text is 1 Timothy 4:16. And by the way, ALL Primitive Baptists believe in "Gospel salvation," but the Absoluters do not believe it is conditional because they believe in Absolute Predestination. In o ther words, it is not our duty to obey God, but we are made to do so.
     
  17. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    Be Careful studying the History of Your Denomination. You might find that your Great Great Grandfathers were more theologically sound than your fathers. :D
     
  18. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is there a way to put the differences between these two ideologies "in a nutshell?" For folks not so versed in deep matters?
     
  19. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't know if this helps, Debby. But, in a nutshell, here is our people's (or at least a majority of us) beliefs.

    Before God created anything else, back in eternity past, He had already foreknown every event that will occur on earth. He knew man would sin, being of the earth, created for the earth (he was not created for heaven), and yet God loved many among fallen man, and wanted to have them in Heaven, and wrote their names in His book.

    Having thus done so, He set about the process of adopting them into His family, so that He may be able to attend to all their legal needs. This was done thru Christ, the lamb whose blood was shed from the foundation of the world. Having thus adopted them as His own, He began creation, and in due time, came to earth born of a virgin, with no human father tainted with sin, thus without sin, and set His face to go to Jerusalem and the cross, in order to save His people from their sin. Thus, His blood was shed not for all mankind, but for His people, those whom He had adopted into His family, and predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. He died on the cross, in this plane called time, in order to satisfy the justice required by His Father's law, taking upon Himself His people's guilt.
    Having sealed their redemption, He will regenerate each one of them in His own time, in His own way, independent of any human means, independent of gospel preaching, the gospel being good news to the elect and already redeemed sinner that His hope in and for Heaven is secure in His Savior, the only begotten Son of God.

    None of these elect will be lost. Everyone will be regenerated, and in due time, will be given a body fit for heaven.

    Uhmmm, there's a few more here I need to add, but for now let this nutshell suffice. Gotta run. We have a visiting Elder right now. Elder Fitzpatrick to those who may know him, of Tidewater PBC. Cheerio ! :D
     
  20. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm...But since you and I are not God, and we don't know who's who, we need to preach the Gospel to all. And some will respond, and some won't. And we'll "understand it better by and by."

    So why all the debate?
     

Share This Page

Loading...