"depart from the faith"

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Sir Ed, Jan 7, 2002.

  1. Sir Ed

    Sir Ed
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    [1Tim 4:1] Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

    What does this mean in regard to salvation? Eternal life?
     
  2. Chemnitz

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    It means some people are going to go to Hell. :(
     
  3. Sir Ed

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    Thanks for clarifying that. ;)

    How does this relate to the concept of "backsliding?"
     
  4. Briguy

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    KJV: 1 tim.
    3:16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
    4:1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    4:2: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
    4:3: Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
    4:4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

    No time now for better response but taken into context I can see two interpretations. Those who depart are backsliders or the some is referring to the Christian line handed down from generation to generation. I lean toward the second one.
    Also, Interesting that verse 4:3 resembles the RCC.
    Scripture is a whole, remember that.

    In Christ,
    Brian

    [ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
     
  5. Sir Ed

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    I thought the same thing concerning the RCC, but didn't want to go off into that again.

    I take it you believe in backsliding?
     
  6. CatholicConvert

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    Funny, we have marriages in our Catholic church all the time. Keeps the priest quite busy. And for Easter, our Pascha baskets, which are blessed by the priest, include kielbasa, ham, and smoked sausage.

    Gee, what does that verse have to do with Catholicism.

    (PS - I already know the answer and it doesn't apply either)

    Brother Ed

    Tongue firmly in cheek.
     
  7. Briguy

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    Hi BR. Ed Hope you are well!! Notice how I said resembles, not is directly like. Priests obviously are forbidden to marry or have to give up their priestship(no clue if that is a word). Are all RC forbid to marry, No. Does the verse say all or is it left open, it is left open. There is a Friday Meat thing during Lent right? Is meat forbidden everyday, No. Is it forbidden at a particular time?, Yes. Is clean meat forbidden at that time, Yes. As I said resembles, not necessarily(sp?) is.

    Back to the subject, Sir Ed I will explain my back sliding answer with an example.
    God is a choir director. When a person truely places their trust in Christ to save them from their sins (no need to go further here) then they join the choir. God directs the choir, once in you can never leave or quit. God raises his hands and directs. He points to the choir to start singing. If choir member sings or don't sing it is up to them. A lot of a persons Christian, earthly life they will sing when directed. On occassion they will be called to sing but won't. Proverbs says that God directs our paths. Does that make sense. Clear as a January blizzard I bet. I can go further if it doesn't answer the question.

    In Christ and faith alone,
    Brian

    [ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
     
  8. Sir Ed

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    Have they then "departed from the faith?"
     
  9. Eladar

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    It seems to me that the passage Sir Ed has posted just repeats what Jesus said about two of the three seeds that grow.

    These seeds die because they have been lead astray. In both cases it was over fleshly matters. In other words, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
     
  10. Briguy

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    Ed, That would depend on the interpretation of that phrase, but my gut response is no. There are times when we take our eyes off God and look to ourselves, but we(Christians) never leave the choir. Just as singing in the choir is much better when we follow the director our lives are much better when we follow God. Taken it further, the the more people watching the director the better the whole choir will sound, so it is with God's church. I made that example up all by myself, just so you all know. (pats self on back, high fives self, clicks heals together, embarrasses self)

    In Christ,
    Brian

    [ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
     
  11. Sir Ed

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    What then would be an example of departing from the faith?
     
  12. Briguy

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    That goes back to my earlier comment about the line of the faithful. You cant depart from God so I go with my first answer. When a person is saved God grabs them. If we grabed God we would let go every day. God is faithful and will never let go!!

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  13. Lorelei

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sir Ed:
    What then would be an example of departing from the faith?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Let me steal Brian's example here a moment (hoping it isn't copywritten yet). Someone who departed from the faith would be someone who went to Church every Sunday to hear that choir. Someone who was raised listening to the choir, following their rules, their guidelines, for after all they were "raised" on the Choir. That was the choir of thier fathers, and their father's father's father.

    But they get tired of the choir so they go join some "band"(deceiptful spirits) or worse yet a "dance group"(doctrine of demons). After all, they had never chosen to "join" the choir. They depart from the faith they were raised on and follow after lies.

    That make sense?

    ~Lorelei
     
  14. Briguy

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    L, you not only stole my example you did a better job with it then I did! - Thats not a nice thing to do!! (HA HA)
    Thanks for your insight.

    Sir ED, are you with us?

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  15. Sir Ed

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    So in ya'lls example, they had faith and then departed from it? How is that different from Brian's statement that you can't depart from God?
     
  16. Eladar

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    I think the real problem here is that nobody knows who is in the chior and who is just sitting there until they decide to leave.

    Who is to say that those who attend but aren't apart didn't believe they were actually in the choir?

    Self delusion is a powerful force. What is real to us, isn't necessarily the actual truth. (Which has been my point all along)
     
  17. Briguy

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    Sir Ed, I think you missed the point. Those who depart are not Christians in the first place, just by-standers who hang around the Christians. Pick one of the three soils from the parable if that helps you understand. Btw, Which denomination (belief type) is best represented in the parable of the soils?

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  18. Sir Ed

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    Brian, your parable is fine. However, it doesn't explain to me who the people are who depart from the faith. To depart from something you must be there first, correct?
     
  19. Eladar

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    Yes, and in the parable three of the four seeds actually grow. The word of God takes root in 3 out of the 4 hearts. But as Jesus says, in 2 out of the 3 hearts, God's truth dies, leading to the departures.
     
  20. Eladar

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    I think some are having a problem discrimating between the elect and the ones who believe for a time, but aren't actually apart of the elect.

    The elect won't depart from the faith. Others must.
     

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