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Depression, Music and The Charismatic Movement

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mark Osgatharp, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    So your back to depression not being a medical condition, and it being conviction of sin.

    I can't see one bit of truth in this statement. And actually I have seen the opposite.

    This is your description of someone who is depressed?
    lies
    whoredoms
    covetousness
    gossips
    disobedience
    rebellions
    pride
    ????????????????

    So this is how you treat sick people? This is what christians think of sick people?
    Make up reasons why their illness is sin.
    This kind of garbage disappoints me in what christians don't mind doing.
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Good point. Clinical depression (not to be confused with other forms of depression) is a legitimate and serious medical condition that needs to be treated. Likewise with D.I.D. (Dissasociative Identity Disorder, formerly called multiple personality disorder).

    As far as bipolar disorder, I lost a good friend to the disease last year who committed suicide. He was a deeply comitted born-again Christian who struggled with the disorder for all of his adult life. About 1/5 of all people with the disorder end up taking their own life.

    You do not "recover" from clinical depression, DID or bipolar disorder. Anyone who thinks that these disorders can be "prayed away" or that a person can just "think" it away, or that it's caused by an evil spirit, etc etc etc, it not only guilty of misapplying scripture, but are guilty of dismissing their brethren who suffer from these serious conditions.

    Getting to the topic of the OP, I fail to see what the issues of Depression, Music and The Charismatic Movement have anything to do with each other.
     
  3. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    I don't see how any part of the OP could be studied, or proven to be either true or false, anyway. If we are trying to fight the "charismataic movement" I think there are better arguments against it than this thread.
     
  4. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    As Bill pointed out, bipolar disorder is a different disorder than clinical depression. Bipolar disorder is not common enough to explain the unpopularity of boring churches or the popularity of charismatic churches.

    I don't think we can accurately diagnose Saul as bipolar from the biblical account.
     
  5. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    I'm with ya, Mark! I have seen the very thing happening in every church I have pastored except one!

    Bro. David
     
  6. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    Here's a description of bipolar disorder (also called manic-depression) from the Mayo Clinic web site. http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=DS00356

    Bipolar disorder
    By Mayo Clinic staff
    Overview

    From high to low. From euphoria to depression. From recklessness to listlessness. These are the extremes associated with bipolar disorder, which can be a serious and disabling mental illness. The condition is also known as manic-depression or manic-depressive illness — from manias on the one extreme to depression on the other.

    Bipolar disorder affects more than 2 million American adults, or about 1 percent of the population age 18 and older. It often begins in adolescence or early adulthood and may persist throughout life.

    Its causes are elusive, and there's no cure. The flares of bipolar disorder may last for weeks or months, causing great disturbances in the lives of those affected, their friends and their families. Left untreated, the condition usually worsens. But it can be managed with medications and other therapies.

    ***********************************************
    A question I have is what did the people living 2000 years ago think was the cause of any disease? Probably "evil spirits" would have been near the top of the list.
     
  7. jshurley04

    jshurley04 New Member

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    I can't believe that you would start a second thread to spread your sinful deciet. I pray that God not allow you to experience and then follow your own advice about what you are shooting double-ought buckshot at.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Here is what I started
    to post in the thread that got zapped [​IMG]
    -----------------------------------------------
    Mark Osgatharp: //Paul gave us the promise of God that
    if we would not worry about anything,
    but by prayer and supplicaton with thanksgiving make our requests
    known unto God, concentrate on good things, and follow his
    example of obedience to God, we would experience the peace
    that passes all understanding. I have been depressed and
    regardless of what any of you assert, when you have depression
    you are not having the peace that passes all understanding - the two
    are anti-thetical.//

    The scripture that was quoted in the opening post (OP):

    Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication
    with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
    And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,
    shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

    My conclusion is that Bro. Mark does not know the meaning
    of several* words in this passage. If he did, then he would agree with
    those who see that 'depression' and 'the peace of God, which
    passeth all understanding' are NOT antithesis to each other.

    One is the word 'keep'. This is a military term refering to the
    place where one puts stuff so it won't get stolen and the person who
    makes sure the stuff is still there. The 'peace of God, which passeth all
    understanding' is direct from Christ.
    The 'peace of God, which passeth all understanding' is what keeps our
    hearts and minds. Hearts do not have clinical depression.
    'The peace of God, which passeth all understanding'does not
    have clinical depression.

    One looses the moral highground when one begin to think that
    they are better than the other or suffer more greatly or think
    that they are somehow better than another cause they did or didn't
    do some earthy thing. I know a story of a man who chewed off the hand
    at the end of his arm to escape a trap - i have twice as many hands as
    he does ;)

    Mark Osgatharp: " ... depression itself is a malady of the spirit,
    not the brain.

    I respectfully disagree. On second thought i DON'T respectfully disagree.
    I think your error will cause a lot of unncessary pain in the world.
    I think you are making up rules you cannot tolerate and those whom you
    have the rule over cannot tolerate. And you need to be stopped dead
    in your tracks. BTW 'dead in your tracks' is just a
    poetic phrase underlining 'stopped' and should be understood on the
    spiritual level not the physical level.

    BTW, i do believe there is a depresssion NOT CALLED 'CLINICAL DEPRESSION'
    which is a spiritual malady. But we are talking 'clinical depression'
    here - which is NOT the opposite of 'God's peace'. In fact, i think it
    is wrong to say that 'the peace of God' is the opposite of
    'clinical depression'. Do you know how you tell if something is
    'chemical depression'? You can cure it with the meds.

    BTW, when i suffered with clinical depresssion half a life-time ago i
    found out something interesting. The part of the brain that is clinically
    depressed is the language censor center. You have a part of your brain
    that sends off sylables, another that intercepts the stupid ones
    and let the goods one go on to direct the voice box. So if you will
    shut off the language censor center and just babble, then you will not
    be as likely to have your clinical depression get worse. How about that,
    we damn the carismatics for teaching people how to 'talk in tongues' yet
    they are teaching their people (well most don't realise it) how to
    avoid clinical depression. BTW, there is no advantage in this regard
    if you think in tongues to then speak in tongues.

    JGrubbs: "There is a big difference in someone who is depressed or sad
    about some event in their life and someone who suffers from
    clinical depression, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia."

    Amen, Brother JGrubbs -- Preach it!
    Since i was treated for clinical depression just past the Lithium stage,
    medical science has developed an understanding of these conditions.

    What used to be 'blue' is now split up into areas of psycitiary:
    depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, split personality disorder (SPD),
    attention deficit disorder (ADD), etc. Each is a different chemical
    imbalance that needs to be corrected. And backwoods preachers that
    don't know at all about this stuff are advising thier church members to
    do stupid things like not getting their broken bone set?
    ------------------------------------------------
    Note * - I just discussed one such word

    Note that I had spoken of the Carismatics
    (The unknown tongue talkers) and various
    clinical brain illnesses which were formerly
    lumped together as 'depresssion'.
     
  9. OCC

    OCC Guest

    Nevermind...
     
  10. OCC

    OCC Guest

    "The sad part is, this religious fix for conviction doesn't really do any ultimate good at all. All it does is gives a temporary relief from their pain, after which they dive right back into their lies, whoredoms, divorces, wrath, perversions, worldliness, covetousness, gossips, disobedience, rebellions, pride, etc."

    You have a point there. My experience with charismatic churches is that it gave a mental high and I was twice as depressed a half hour after church was over...
     
  11. OCC

    OCC Guest

    I've wondered if split personality disorder was a form of demon possession but I guess it's just the brain's/body's way of coping with tremendous psychological and physical abuse suffered by the person in the past. It is interesting how it usually happens to those who were severely abused.
     
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