Depression

"Do you really think its right for a Christian to seek out a psychiatrist and ultimately take a drug to help your depression?"

"Now my thoughts. I say that is the worlds way. Its not the Christian way. God told us not to seek the advise of the ungodly."


I was gonna address it point by point but I don't think it's necessary. You know how you feel fatigued and grouchy when you have a cold? There is something physically wrong making you feel bad. Same thing with Depression. Most cases of depression are treated with Selective Seratonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs). There are Christian Psychiatrists around that a patient can go to. However any doctor can prescribe SSRIs. There is no need for a psychiatrist. So is it right for a Christian to seek medical help with depression? Only if he wants to feel better.

 

Any thoughts??? Oh yeah. Especially since I suffer from a mild form of depression and take celexa for it.

Depression is not purely a state of mind. It is also genetic. My mom has depression, my brother has depression, i have depression.

Let me ask you a question- would you advocate that people with psychotic breakdowns and schophrenia be left to rot in godless mental facilities or get the help they need through medicine and have a chance at normal life?

My experience with getting help has been a true blessing. I feel happier, my attitude has changed, and I have made more friends.

There are Christian psychatrists out there

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Hi chet,

RE: Mind altering drugs,

About 25 years ago, I went on a series of fasts (no food just water) the last of which lasted about 30 days. I began to hallucinate, have visions of angels and some other bizzare happenings. Actually and for the most part, it was quite pleasant. Everything seemed beautiful especially colors, and all my senses were magnified.
My wife became concerned about my behavior and took me to the hospital. The doctors thought I was on acid until she explained about the length of time of my fasting. They said that a prolonged fast would indeed produce the symptoms of having ingested hallucinogenic drugs.
I had protein acids and ketones in my blood which caused this "trip".
Fasting is approved of by God, so then would you say that He approves of mind altering under the condition of fasting?

HankD

 

There are two kinds of mental depressions: hose attributable to chemical causes (imbalances) and those that are not. A chemical imbalance is a medical condition that is testable and the chemical that is imbalanced can be identified. In such cases, it is appropriate to treat the person with the appropriate drug to restore chemical balance. What is most commonly called depression and diagnosed as such is not tested by medical means. It is diagnosed by asking how someone feels about themselves and their relationship to their circumstances. It is most often self-diagnosed (the dr. asks questions to determine the illness). If you doubt what I am saying do a generic search for "depression" on the net and look at some of the sites that come up. SEveral months ago I preached a message on Emotions of Melancholy and was surprised by what I found at a number of sites.

Depression is most often treated by isotropic drugs that are mood-altering. Depression in many people is treated by such things as a Friday night trip to the bar to "forget the cares of the world." By others, it is treated by a trip to a mistress's house in the name of a mid life crisis. Other by a trip to the mall to shop it off. Lest you think that any of these are made up or isolated, they are all among the many documented ways that people deal with depression. Others do it by prescription.

Dr. Bob talks about depression that comes from certain kinds of eating habits. Those are treatable by changing eating habits. If it is a chemical imbalance, it can be identified by medical testing and then treated. However, only in rare cases is such testing done.

Depression that is not medically testable is the result of mental state. A mental state is something that can be controlled (2 Cor 10:5, Rom 12:2). While certain cases do draw sympathy, it does not excuse the continuation of unbiblical thought patterns. Simply throwing prozac or some such drug at a refusal to think biblical thoughts is attacking the symptom rather than the problem.

Those who fail to control the way they think are unbiblical. I realize that sounds hard on people. However, I think our commitment to biblical solutions for spiritual problems demands a more discerning approach than is demonstrated by many today.

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

According to some TV commercials, the Book of Mormon will help too...


OK, that was bad... I'm sorry ...

 

My wife suffers from Bi-polar disorder. That is the new term for manic-depression. I would not wish this illness on my worst enemy. I have seen what this chemical imbalance has done to her, and it is the most terrible thing I can imagine. There is no way for me to know how it makes her feel, but from the little I can know it is very scary. The drugs she takes help to stabilize her disorder and to lead a normal life. Without thoes drugs she would live in a very dark, dangerous, world within her own mind.

 

Depression is not a mood, it is not an attitude. You have no control over it. Depression is an illness. A mental illness.
If you or your child had terrable flu, that just wouldn't go away. Would you go to a doctor? et you say someone with an illness can't. Would you give your child medicines? Over the counter or prescription? Yet you say others can not.
I have depression, and have had for several years. I don not see a psychiatrist for the very reasons you gave. But I do take medicines. I was able to have my dosage cut down, and then had actually stopped taking them for several months, then found I was going to have to go back on sooner or later. My husband hoped sooner. I turn in to a raving maniac without them. I had to start back when my son was arrested. I was so nervous I could stand it anymore.
Depression is not fun, people don't choose to be depressed, we'd all like something different now please.
I have a personal relationship with God, and He has shown me many things through out this whole experience, He has used it in my life. So my relationship with God isn't lacking at all, like you seem to suggest.
And my thoughts aren't altered, my thoughts are more plain and clear, at least I can focus to think, I can mentally function now.
We all get sick, we take drugs to get batter, even if it's just an aspirin. God takes care of us, but we still get sick. And we will as long as we live in this sin sick world. Depression is no different from any other long term illness that anyone else gets, and takes drugs for.
Untill you personally know what depression is and isn't, don't make judgements on the rest of us who do have it.

 

You posted the first post, then closed the second one with the words NKJV. There's nothing left to say BUT ouch! Here, have a NIV so you can put a little more salt in the gaping wound.
Hee hee hee.
Gina

 

There are two types of depression:

a. Organic - symptoms from a physiological cause.

b. Functional - symptoms have a psychological cause.

Distinguishing between mental and physical causes:

1. Usually the mental depression develops over a long period of time, the physical more suddenly.

2. A combination of the two can occur which complicates the problem; i.e., an unstable person with a head injury can become depressed. Or a person suffering from an organic depression, will develop a functional depression. (Being sick can be depressing!)

So, if the depression is organic (caused by a physical problem), treat it organically with medicines. Only a fool would tell a diabetic to stop taking his insulin, and only a fool would tell a person suffering from an organic depression to stop taking his SRIs!

If the problem is functional (psychological) then it should be confronted. These sorts of functional depressions are caused by sin. the sin nature wants something, and the person cannot have it, so the person gets depressed. It is the adult expression of the childish tantrum. It must be confronted, confessed, forgiven and forgotten.

From my syllabus "Pastoral Counselling" a course I teach at the seminary.

 

I have a couple of thoughts on this.

For starters, I'm not trying to open a can of worms, in the KJV, Philippians 4:6 says, "be careful for nothing" I think that means, "be full of care for no thing". In verse 10 of the same chapter Paul says "But I rejoice in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye also were careful, but ye lacked opportunity."

I think what he is saying is don’t worry about things, do worry about people. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. God designed us in such a way that if we touch a hot stove, we instinctively jerk our hand back. God also gave us emotions, if we are full of care, we should instinctively take it to the Lord in prayer. In the same way that we sneeze, we should cast away being full of care over things. Notice it says careful not caring, we have to give some care to things but not to the point that we are full of care.

Somehow we have gotten the idea that a Christian should be this carefree happy go lucky Ned Flanders (Bart Simpson's Neighbor) king of guy. We are told that it is a good witness to the world when, if we Christians go threw some great trial, we paint on a fake smile and clap our hands singing Jesus makes me happy happy happy! Acutely the world looks at that kind of response as repulsive.
What is a good witness is when it's "a time to morn" for a Christian, we get real and say that really heart BUT "I can rejoice because my name is written in heaven". It's a witness, when the world notices that "We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed" and we have peace that "passeth all understanding".


I know that the way we think and the things we eat can have an effect on our bodies. If I eat a spicy meal just before going to bed, it has a physical effect and sometimes, I believe, effects the way I dream. I know that taking certain medications can cause me to become irritable and so on.

What I question is the "chemical imbalance" thing. I have had a lot of experience with people who say that they have a chemical imbalance but when I ask what chimerical is out of balances they don’t know. I doubt that they are low on Prozac. From what I have observed, it seems that for whatever reason, someone can get overwhelmed and the "imbalance" is the result of and not the cause of their actions. I have personally observed people who "just lost it" receive help chemically, it kind of puts things on hold and gives them a chance to gather their thoughts. The ones that made a full recovery were the ones that used the time to change whatever action caused the imbalance. On the other hand some couldn't get things straitened out and became dependent upon the chemical.


This is turning into a long post so I'll make this short. I heard a talk radio show about a psychologist from Colorado, I think, that has written a book that basically says that Psychologists heart more than help and he advocates a tough love approach with no chemicals… about that time, I lost the station. Dose that ring a bell with anybody? I would like to read the book.


PS: I don’t think it's hereditary, more than likely it is learned behavior.

Anyway I reckon I'm instilled to an opinion.

 

Thomas Cassidy=
You wrote.....If the problem is functional (psychological) then it should be confronted. These sorts of functional depressions are caused by sin. the sin nature wants something, and the person cannot have it, so the person gets depressed. It is the adult expression of the childish tantrum. It must be confronted, confessed, forgiven and forgotten.

You sound like Job's friends.
Not all sickness is due to sin. I guess it must be easy to point a finger at others and yell "sinner!!!".
You neglected to put on your list that some depression is an imballance/malfunction in the brain. A malfunction of electrical impulses.
I'll take my doctors word for it.



[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: katie ]

 

Katie,

I believe the imbalance/malfunction was covered in Dr. Cassidy's post as organic.

However, I would disagree with Dr. Cassidy that all functional depression is caused by sin. This type of depression is usually brief and caused by an outside force, i.e the death of a loved one. Many times situational depression could be caused by sin, but not all times.

(Did I really disagree with Dr. Cassidy in public? Maybe he dosn't intimidate me as much as I thought.)

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>... some depression is an imballance/malfunction in the brain. A malfunction of electrical impulses.
I'll take my doctors word for it.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Katie,

Thomas, Chet, and I (and perhaps someone else) have all said this already. If there is an imbalance in the brain, it can be identified and treated. It is not generic; it is identified by testing. If it is not identifiable as a physiological issue -- i.e. no one can tell you what chemical it is, then it should not be treated as physiological disorder.

In my experience, both personally and professionally, most of the time, depression is an attitude, a thought process, that focuses on the hopelessness of the situation rather than the greatness of God. Treating it with drugs does not help the problem; it only postpones it.

 

Larry, you just wouldn't know. And you already admitted you have no personal experience. You don't even know any of the people you are talking about, but feel it is ok to judge them oZ

 

Depression has to be experienced to be appreciated. Dysthemia (sp) can be analyzed by a doctor with an interview. It doesn't take a blood test. This isn't something that should even be debated. Medications work and should be used immediately upon analysis of the condition.

 

I agree with what Larry said concerning allowing a situation to completely ovetake our lives. Instead of trusting God, a person constantly meditates on their problem, and the only thing they gain is depression and ulcers. Case in point . . . my sister-in-law's husband was found to be a drug addict. Not only this, but he was forging prescriptions, and was subsequently arrested. It's a long, horrible story, but he's also a thief and a liar. This whole situation has been really terrible, and she has allowed it all to overtake her life to the point that she throws up all the time, cries all the time, can't fall asleep until the wee hours, and then is awake within a couple of hours. She looks very sickly. She has been going to a good, Christian counselor who happens to be an associate pastor. He has helped her alot, and yet she is still plagued by these problems. I think that he has, for the most part, counselled her as much as he possibly can . . . the rest is up to her . . . she must now take to heart the word of God and the power of God in her life before she can be well again. She was given a prescription for her depression, but I don't think it is more a lack in her trust in God than a chemical thing going on.

Now, on the other hand, when I was 16, my mom started having panic attacks, thoughts of suicide, fatigue, and other ailments. Her doctors at first told her . . . no, insisted . . . that it was all in her mind. Eventually she was led to a doctor who understood that she had a chemical imbalance, was given something to correct that, and has done very well since that time. It was a very, very scary time in our family. She recently tried to reduce her medication or get it in a different formula (can't remember which), and has not done well on it at all.

So, our families have experienced both of these dilemmas. I can clearly see that their is depression caused by outside circumstances that we allow to control us, and there are times when our bodies just don't function as necessary.

My youngest is very timid in many situations, and may suffer, to some degree, from anxiety attacks. And she is only 7 years old! This is so scary . . . I used to think she was just shy . . . and possibly easily intimidated . . . but as time wears on, I can see it's more than that. A close friend of our confided that she (our friend) suffers from anxiety, and has begun taking something for it. She says that the way her medication works is that it builds a reserve for those times when situations arise, and her brain releases the appropriate chemical thanks to the medication. I don't know if my daughter needs this at her age . . . I don't want to medicate her if not necessary, and yet if she truly has a problem, and help is available, I would want her to be able to function as the rest of us do.

Ok, so y'all found out more about my family than you wanted! LOL . . . sorry this was so long. I used to doubt the use of drugs for depression, but I know there is a time and a place, though not everyone needs them.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bustr:
Depression has to be experienced to be appreciated. Dysthemia (sp) can be analyzed by a doctor with an interview. It doesn't take a blood test. This isn't something that should even be debated. Medications work and should be used immediately upon analysis of the condition.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is the physiological issue in Dysthemia? How is it diagnosed? What is the problem and what do the medications do to fix it?