desent from burning springs

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by elder_jeffery_endicott, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. elder_jeffery_endicott

    elder_jeffery_endicott
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    This is my first post. Read alot after surfing into the forum and decided to join.
    I was wondering about the complete decent from burning springs if it is actually possible. I know some but would like to be able to get the rest of the pieces so I could get the complete picture. I know that north district armed off burning springs in 1813. Then in 1825 burning springs armed off new salem. And then new salem armed off union and northern new salem and others. then burning springs armed off paint union in 1837. Paint union then armed off zion in 1848. Paint union also had several splits. Zion armed off bethlemham in 1871, new zion in 1903 and tri-state zion split off in 1940. Tri-state zion had a split this year 2009. After the zion tri-state zion split zion became old zion. Bethlemham has had several splits. Which has brought about bethlemham, old bethleham, union bethleham, calvery and mt sion. this is pretty much the extent of my knowledge of how these groups fit together. Any additional information would be apprieciated. Thanks for your help
     
  2. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
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    Hello Bro. Jeff,


    Glad to see you made it to the board! About your question, you will probably find other members on here with better knowledge on Burning Springs than myself but I would first have to say that Rufus Perrigan's History of the Regular Baptist would be a good start.

    I'll have to find my copy of it, and get back with you. Good seeing you on here.

    David White
     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Welcome from me, too.

    Be sure to go up to the top of the menu to "Welcome to the Baptist Board" and post a little bit about yourself so we can get to know you better. Include all the juicy details you'd care to.

    I learned something new from your post. Several times you used the expression "armed off," which I'd never heard before. I'm assuming it is sort of like "sprang from."

    Is that about right? If not, feel free to set us straight.
     
  4. elder_jeffery_endicott

    elder_jeffery_endicott
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    yes from they way I understand it armed off is a term that is used when one association divides its territory and creates a new association. This division is peaceful and usually comes about because the association was is getting too large to handle effectivly.
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Thanks for the explanation.
     
  6. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
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    Perrigan's History of Regular Baptist

    pg 35 of his book, he states, "Paint Union gave off Zion in 1848 and Blaine Union in 1890....Zion gave off Bethlehem about 1870. Blaine Union gave off Iron Hill, 1904...New Hope came from paint Union in 1920."

    Is this the part you were wanting more on?

    David
     
  7. elder_jeffery_endicott

    elder_jeffery_endicott
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    Yes, thanks. This was important piecies of the puzzel that I had no idea where they fit into place.
     
  8. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
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    Bro Jeff,

    My hope someday is to work on the "bloodlines" of the various United Baptist associations. Paint Union has been a great mother to many of the associations in KY, as Bethel has been here in MO. But, of course, they aren't the only ones that have gave an arm off to other associations.

    I would like to make a family tree to show where all the current associations come from, so that it may make sense to how they got where they are and what similar influences they have when compared to others.

    David
     
  9. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
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    Also, Paint Union gave off Mt. Zion in 1869.

    South Kentucky Association, being the originator of most KY associations (along with Elkhorn) started in May 1788 as Separate Baptists before entering the General Union and splitting into two districts.

    I would like to see how much Elkhorn influenced the United Baptist associations of today. Would be nice to have some United Baptists working on the history of the United Baptists, huh? :thumbs:

    David
     
  10. old regular

    old regular
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    The Perrigan History ,Has some good things in it,but it is not always accurate, it is very biased at times. Elder Banner Manns wanted them to turn the project of the History over to one of the Colleges but the Brothers didn't carefor that approach, you will note that very old Regular Baptist Associations have been left out like the Mountain, the history of the divides is not always according to the facts, an example would be the Divide in the Sandlick Church it says the hardshell side sued the softshell side for the building but court records state it was the other way around.Bro.Mike
     
  11. old regular

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    There at this time two Burning Spring Associations both use the name Regular Primitive Bro.Mike
     
  12. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
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    I guess that's one of the problems with historical writings; they tend to be biased, especially when the writer has a very particular slant. I've seen it frequently when it comes to the history of United Baptists. Most writers say very little (leaving out important information) while others act like there was no name change when the VA and KY unions took place. I've seen it come from Southern Baptist writings and in some Primitive Baptist work.

    I take it then Perrigan was a "softshell" to say something like that about Sandlick church situation.

    David
     
  13. old regular

    old regular
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    No Brother Rufus ended up on the Bethel Side of the Union split, he was fed his information by others often printing the same info twice,the book was not done the way some of the old brothers wanted, they wanted the truth.What they ended up with was some truth and some half truths ,some history total reversed to favor one side over the other if you studied it you will see that they tried to present the other sides view but it was a limitted approach.Elder Elmer Church and I were very good friends but he said they wanted to make a history like Hassells but they to many people involved to do it right but we are fournate to have what we have .Dorgan's book also was slanted to the more doctrinal liberals in Old Regular not one of the old line brothers really got to state their position. Bro.Mike
     
  14. old regular

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    History of the Oldtime Baptist list many associations throughout the U.S The author is Elder Wesley Yontz Burning Springs is listed with a small sketch along with other old baptist associations. Elder Slone
     
  15. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc
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    Bro Mike,

    I would think that it would help then to have several contributers to a writing of such a vast amount of information. That way the writing can maybe come out as fair as it needs to.

    I haven't read anything from Dorgan. I know his writings get used some in other historical books that I've seen. I would like to check out Yontz's book, I recall reading his name in some sort of university library or some sort of archive?

    As for Burning Springs, what was the reason for the two associations and is Elder Jerry Brown still involved with them?

    David
     
  16. old regular

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    ,I am not sure why there are two associations, one , the Jerry Brown side is in correspondence with the Mate's Creek Group and most of the Regular Primitives, the other side at one time was in correspondence with Thorton Union and last that I knew Mt.Zion United Baptist Association [the large side] .History of the Old time Baptist in America also has some mistakes but they are just that mistakes.The history of the Regular Baptist calls the other side names etc... not. brotherly kindness.It almost makes the Union, New Salem right in everything, and this is not so, mistakes were made on all sides, mistakes that have never been corrected,to the cost of the Old School Baptist every where.Elder Slone
     
    #16 old regular, Mar 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2010

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