Deuteronomy 8:18.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO, May 16, 2007.

  1. ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO

    ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    :wavey:

    Deut. 8:18,

    "And you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

    This verse says that God gives us the power to get wealth so that His covenant can be established. Was His covenant not established with coming of Jesus?

    If it was then why would we be entitled to wealth?

    If it was not then what is the covenant?

    I thought that God promised and delivered a Messiah, therefore establishing His covenant.


    Thanks for your help, :godisgood:


    rosamaria:thumbs:
     
  2. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Many use this verse to go down the heretical path of "prosperity theology."

    God does not promise us material wealth.

    Context of Deuteronomy 8...God is telling the Israelites about their fertile land. He juxtaposes the idea of creating no wealth for one's self (slavery) with being able to produce and provide for one's self and family (freedom); any attempt to make it say God wants us rich is a misuse of Scripture, and a mockery of Gods' name.
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    No, not really, Rosamaria. By-the-by, I love that name.

    This verse does not say that God gives us the power to get wealth so that His covenant can be established.

    This verse is reminding the Israelites just before they cross over into the Promise Land to never forget that they did absolutely nothing on their own. No wealth that they have accumulated was of they own doing.

    Look at the previous verses and see what they are saying.

    Verses 1-5: The people are getting ready to cross over and Moses is giving them some final words to remember. He urged them not to forget that God brought them out of the wilderness, put them through tough times, caused them to hunger, fed them manna, kept their clothes from wearing out, and disciplined them.

    Verses 6-10: Moses tells them that because of their 40 year history with God in the wilderness and God's taking care of their every need that it is very important to keep and obey all of God's commands and that God is about to bring them into the Promised Land and to never forget to thank Him for it.

    Verses 11-16: Moses says again that as they experience the greatness and the prosperity of the Promised Land, not to forget that God gave it all to them in the first place. And he says again to obey all of God's commands. He reminds them again that God brought them out of slavery and the wilderness, etc.....

    Verses 17-18: Moses says that if the people of Israel start believing that they made all of this happen of their own accord that they are to think again. "Remember that GOD, your God gave you the strength to produce all of this wealth so as to confirm the covenant that he promised to your ancestors."

    The verse that you are in question of is saying that God made a covenant to bring these people to a Promised Land and make them a great nation. Their success, both economically and spiritually, proof that God is Sovereign in His promises and cannot lie.

    The people were not economically successful of their own accord or because they were deserving of it, but God ordained it to be so.

    And the successful economic status was not the covenant, itself.....it was a sign of the validity of the covenant. There were other signs, too....God's presence in the Tent of Meetings, his acceptance of their offerings, etc....

    Again, not quite. His New Covenant was established with the voluntary and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. His shed blood marked the New Covenant.

    We are not entitled to wealth. The Israelites were not entitled to wealth. The wealth that they accumulated enabled them to establish themselves as an independent nation able to conquer any enemies. And God gave them the wealth (resources) to be able to do this in the first place.

    The Old Covenant, like the New Covenant, was defined with the shedding of blood also. Circumcision and ceremonial sacrifices/rituals were the hallmark of the Old Covenant....not wealth.

    But it took wealth (resources) to get them established among the nations of the world as a force to be reckoned with.

    The verse in question is simply saying where the wealth came from and for them never to forget it and to never focus on their own abilities but God's leadership.
     
  4. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    3,395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Besides, Rosamaria, defining "wealth" is the key to understanding.

    Money is fleeting, and unreliable.

    Wealth of the Spirit is eternal, reliable, and much more satisfying.
     
  5. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed....
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    It would be error to suggest the God established ISrael to become an impoverished nation as a "sign" and witness to the world that following the one true God "does not really work".

    In Psalms David says "you bless us that the nations of earth may see it and glorify God".

    The success and prosperity of an obedient and faithful Israel was to be a witness to the World that lead to world-wide evangelism.

    However Israel "rejected that plan" and now we are in the fall-back plan "the persecuted church" plan.

    Just as Adam rejected the "sinless paradise plan" and so now mankind is in the sinful-doomed-planet plan needing to accept Salvation to escape certain doom in the second death -- so Israel rejected the "prosperity" option leaving us with the "persecuted church" plan.

    The "habbit" of mankind in rejecting the best and getting "plan-b" instead is nothing if not "consistent".

    When Israel sought to kill the 2 faithful spies along with Moses and Aaron they got "wandering in the wilderness for 40 years" and death to all those who were 40 years of age and older INSTEAD of walking into the promised land 40 days after leaving Egypt.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    OUCH!! I resemble that remark! Have you been spying on me? :laugh:

    Good point, Bob. :applause: :applause:
     
  8. ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO

    ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deut. 8:18.

    :thumbs: THANK YOU!!!

    You all really helped me out.. :1_grouphug: ( Scarlett O., rebel, Bob, tragic__pizza...)

    more than you think..


    I appreciate this.


    rosamaria
     
    #8 ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO, May 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2007
  9. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Deut dispensation ended with Jesus

    The Deut dispensation ended with Jesus. Only thing Jesus promised us was hard times.
     
  10. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, He promised to be with us always...
     
  11. ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO

    ROSAMARIA FABRIZIO
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deut.8:18.

    :type:

    In Deut. 8:18.

    What is God's Covenant that He wants established??


    Thanks.


    rosamaria
     
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    Hey, again, Rosamaria.

    What covenant? Let's break the verse up a little.

    "But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God...."
    • This is the conclusion based on the previous 17 verses where Moses is reminding the Israelites that God has given them everything they have. They haven't earned or deserved anything.
    "...for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth...."
    • What wealth? Well, when they left Egypt 40 years before, God pressed upon the Egyptians not only to let them go, but to give them gold and silver and precious resources to boot. And along the way as they are coming closer and closer to the Promised Land, God is equiping them to conquer other nations and take their wealth. They couldn't do this on their own. All they could do for 40 years was complain and get in trouble. But God enabled them to be successful.
    • Why did they need this wealth? So that they could become an independently functioning nation.
    • Why did they need to become a nation?.........That's in the next parts.
    "...that he (God) may establish his covenant...."
    • God has a plan. He's always had a plan. And he drew up a contract between himself and a particular group of people that he wanted to be different from everyone else.
    "....which he sware unto thy fathers..."
    • Here's your answer. The covenant God was establishing in Deut. 8:18 is the covenant he made initially with Abraham back in the middle of Genesis.
    • God promised to make Abraham's descendants into a great nation. Why? So that he could have a sanctified (set apart from everyone else) people that were holy, righteous, and his own from which the Messiah could come from.
    • When God made that initial covenant with Abraham, he asked Abraham to take some animals and cut them up into pieces and line them up on the ground. (Genesis 15) Abraham did it and then Abraham slept and God, in the form of smoke and fire passed between the two lines of cut up animals. The blood sealed the covenant and God's passing between the sacrificed animals sealed his unbreakable promise.
    "...as it is this day."
    • What day? The day Moses was giving his final address to the nation of Israel before they crossed over in the Promised Land.

    The wealth was not the covenant. The covenant was becoming a powerful nation and being set apart from the pagan nations by obeying God's laws that made them unique from anyone else.
     
  13. D28guy

    D28guy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus said "I have come that you might have life, and that more abundant.", and that His desire is that our "joy might be full".

    Thats even in the midst of hard times.

    We see this when Paul was experiencing "the abundant life"...singing joyfully... while chained in in a stinking rotten dungeon.

    Praise God for His wonderful provision! :thumbs:

    Mike
     

Share This Page

Loading...