Did Christ die for Judas the traitor ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Did Christ die for Judas the traitor ? Jesus said of Judas Jn 6:70

    70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

    I emphasize the number one here because some will say that Christ called Peter a devil when He said this Matt 16:23

    But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

    So if Jesus was calling Peter a devil here then Christ was mistaken in Jn 6:70 when He said quite clearly that of the Twelve only One was a devil, He should have said Two of you are devils !

    Now, did Christ die for Judas the traitor devil ?

    The answer is NO ! In fact there is no evidence in scripture that Christ died for anyone who does not become a believer and follower of Him at His Voice and who was of His Sheep. Scripture is clear in that it indicates that judas was not a believer in Christ as the other Disciples He chose to follow Him were; This is seen here Jn 6:64-65

    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him [Thats the devil judas].

    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father !

    Now Jesus says later of those jews not believing on Him this Jn 10:26

    26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    Now since Jesus points out in Jn 6:64-65 that the one betraying Him was one that believeth not, then it leads to the conclusion that he was not of Christ's Sheep Jn 10:26 ! which scripture does testify that Christ did die for Jn 10:11,15

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    So there is no biblical evidence that judas iscariot was a believer, therefore a Sheep, and one for whom Christ died.

    Now I know many who claim that Christ did die for judas the devil traitor because he was supposedly present at the Lords Supper when He spake the following Lk 22:18-23, and from a casual reading of this text it does appear that judas was among them when Christ stated for whom He was giving Himself in behalf of, however many debates have come arose on this, since when we compare all the accounts of this event with other Gospel writers, it seems to indicate that judas at the time the word were spoken ,had already left the room to do his devilish deed of betraying Christ; But if he by chance was still there with them and partook of the Lords supper with them ! Now if he was and the Lord did give him to eat and drink of His Body and Blood, then Christ gave it to a unbeliever, a devil that was about to betray Him ! Now notice Lk 22:21-22

    21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.

    22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

    Now what did Christ say about the one who was to betray Him earlier here ? Jn 6:64-65

    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    Hence judas would still be Identified as a unbeliever whom Jesus knew that would betray Him. This is serious here, because if Jesus in light of judas unbelief in Him, still administered to him the Lord's Supper, then why not administer the Lords Supper to all unbelievers ? If Christ did, why not follow His example ?

    Now if judas was there as it is conjectured, then he was there in Unbelief, and Christ is clear why one does not believe in Him here Jn 10:26

    26 But ye believe not[including judas Jn 6:64], because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    And scripture testimony states that Christ gives His Life for His Sheep, but if judas did not believe, could not have been one, even up to the point of Lk 22, so the conclusion is, even if judas was present at lk 22:21-22 and heard Jesus words, they still did not apply to any but His Sheep. I personally do not believe Judas was even present at that time, but if he was, I cannot see Christ giving a unbeliever the Lord's Supper !
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    NO, because the Bible tells us he was reprobate.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Jesus died for everyone. But I won't try to debate that with Calvinists, as there is no point.
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    So the Lord died and paid for the sin debt for all those who are in hell than?
     
  5. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    When I said everyone, I meant all who have ever lived, are living, or will live.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Yes why is that a problem?
     
  7. SovereignMercy

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    Since you insist on calling people who believe all the Bible "calvinists" maybe we should classify everyone who believes like you a "moron".
     
  8. billwald

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    Then Jesus' failure rate is very high?
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    Unless that was his intention.
     
  10. billwald

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    Why would a loving God implement a program which sends a majority of humanity to Hell? Traditional Christian eschatology better describes an evil god with a sense of humor.
     
  11. webdog

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    Not at all. God's wrath against sin has been appeased (it is finished). People go to hell for lack of faith not for lack of atonement.

    Your position has God eternally the victim who is eternally unpaid for offenses committed against Him. The position in the OP is the one that has sin reigning over God.
     
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Thats false teaching. What scripture says that people go to hell for lack of faith ?
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    That automatically means that you do not believe that Christ's Death alone saves ! Unless you are a universalist, which is error also !
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    And since you apparently do not have the mental capacity to have a discussion without resorting to personal attacks, the word "moron" fits you.

    BTW, I believe the Bible; that's why I am not a Calvinist.

    Let's take it a little further: Someone who believes all the Calvinist distinctives can justifiably be called a Calvinist. Even if you called yourself a Catholic, or a "pig in a poke", you would still be a Calvinist.

    Thanks for proving me right about not being able to have a conversation with someone of your ilk.

    If you do intend to joust with me, you should not come unarmed.
     
    #14 Michael Wrenn, Oct 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2012
  15. 12strings

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    2 Peter 2:1 - But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    Did Jesus's death Purchase people who end up bringing destruction on themselves anyway?...this verse seems to say so.
     
  16. plain_n_simple

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    Now that is for Calvin followers....
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    Does it sat say they were purchased with Christ's Blood ? as it does here Rev 5:9

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    Jesus did purchase the World for the sake of the Treasure of the Elect in it as pointed out here Matt 13:44

    44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

    In this same passage the field is the world Matt 13:38

    The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    The Treasure is not the World itself but it is found in the Field.

    Thats just one way of understanding 2 Pet 2:1. To say that Christ redeemed by His Blood those who are false teachers is nothing short of Blasphemy !
     
  18. webdog

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    John 3:18. Put that "false teaching" into your pipe and smoke it.
     
  19. billwald

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    >Your position has God eternally the victim who is eternally unpaid for offenses committed against Him

    The God who created the universe can be a victim of the universe he created? Does not God have the power to undo everything he has done and/or everything the universe has done?
     
  20. billwald

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    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    OK, exactly what IS the condemnation based on these 4 verses? God condemns this person to what? To having his evil exposed! Not condemned to Hell.
     

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