did Christ die for our spirit ,or for our flesh to be saved?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by athanaseusperez, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    When adam sinned, did he sin with his spirit or did he sin with his flesh? When he "died" that day , why do people say he died spiritually that day . It was a physical death but instead of God killing Adam, (like He said He would) He killed the lamb in place of Adam .
     
  2. blackbird

    blackbird
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    athanaseusperez---to answer your topic question---both! Our spirit at the moment of Salvation---our flesh at the moment of Resurrection!
     
  3. WallyGator

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    That's why there's two components in Lord's Supper-wine and bread.
     
  4. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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  5. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    what is why ? what does wine and bread have to do with anything I said?
    Also, if you can let me know how to just receive these posts on the website instead of having to check my email that would be great. thanks
     
  6. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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  7. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    so when Jesus died on the cross, what died , was it his spirit of his flesh? Also what about romans 6 in the first part of that chapter. It talks about us being buried with him in baptism. What about when paul saying he was crucified with Christ , was it his flesh that was crucified with God or was it his spirit? The scriptures show that it was for our flesh .Why would our spirit have to be saved . Do we sin with our spirit or with our flesh
     
  8. PowerndBlood

    PowerndBlood
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    athanaseusperez,

    When Adam and Eve ate the fruit they died spiritually right then and there, that is why they saw that they were naked and hid themselves.

    *Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    God never said that they would die(in the flesh)the momment they ate the fruit just that they "would surely die" and they did, in both ways, just not at the same time(spirit then, body years later).

    God killed the lamb to cover there sin but it could not take it away until the cross of Christ, just like all the animals that were sacrificed in the old testament could only get you to Paradise, not Heaven until the only sacrifice that would take the sins away was paid, it took sinless blood to erase sinful blood in God's eyes and no man born of a fallen man could ever provide that.

    As far as what died of Christ while on the cross it went like this.

    Only His flesh(body), died for 3 days.

    He sent His Spirit up on the cross.

    *Lu:23:46: And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    His body died and went into the tomb.

    *M't:27:58: He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

    *M't:27:59: And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

    *M't:27:60: And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

    His Soul went to Hell and got the keys and took my place.

    *Ac:2:31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    *Re:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


    Spirit - Heaven(alive)

    Body - Earth(dead)

    Soul - Hell(alive but called the 2nd death because if a man goes there he is apart from God)

    3 in 1
     
  9. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    Why would adam and eve be scared to die spiritually? Read in hebrews how it says that we were all subject to bondage of dying and where it says death where is thy sting . The sting was in a physical death not in a spiritual . When you point a gun at someone are they scared to die spiritually or are they afraid to die physically . Nonsense adam died spiritally. Stop getting yout theology from a commentary and just read the verse for what it says . Any person knows that when someone says you will die if you commit such act means you will die physically . The reason why adam didnt die physically was because God used a lamb in place of them . A substitution for their death .
    Also dont tell me that since they sinned that they finally knew they were naked . Adam knew all along that eve was naked and vice versa . When they saw they were naked was they realized that since they had sinned , they lost the advocacy of Gods protection within His laws. Just like when a child knows that he has sinned hes not concerned about what he is wearing but the fact that he did wrong and that his parent is going to have to punish him because he is just
     
  10. PowerndBlood

    PowerndBlood
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    Your problem isn't with me, it's with reading and believing what you read, please try again.

    You can read it to were God LIED when He said they would die "this day"(flesh) or read it to were God told the TRUTH and they died "this day"(spirit), it's your choice.

    *edited to add that you are looking at this to fleshly, just like this fellow once did.

    *Joh:3:4: Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    You must be born again and it is certainly not flesh.
     
  11. LandonL

    LandonL
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    Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that Christ died for our flesh and our spirits do not need salvation?

    If I understand you correctly, this smacks of a primitive form of Gnosticism, and I'd advise you to take a look at the works of the Apostle John. Gnosticism is a heresy condemned by the church at large in every age.
     
  12. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    Yes you do need to be corrected . Your little college words are eating you up . Instead of trying to sound intellectual , give a few verses where it is clear on Christ having to die for our spirits before you scream heresy smooth talker . youre probably a salesman or a preacher , one of the two , or maybe both
     
  13. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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  14. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    Of course my problem isnt with you , or even God . Dont put God on trial when you try to prove a point to me . Dont you call that swearing by soomething that isnt yours. To say that I have called God a liar is nonsense and you should be careful to say that of another brother in christ.
    Yes God did mean what he said when he said adam would die in that day . Let me put it this way , if there was a law concerning speeding , if you were to speed over 50 miles per hour and the penalty was to either pay 500 million dollars or die . Would the law still stand as far as the penalty of death ? Of course the penalty still stands . Its not like just anyone would pay the 500 million bail for the guilty and he would therefore die .
    Genesis story is just like the gospel . 1.The law is set in stone . 2.You sin and you pay the price . In romans five it talks about the devil calling God unjust for allowing sinful david,and the old testament saints to not go to hell and be in abrahams bosom and the devil too, like you, is calling God and me a liar . 3. God provides a way of salvation . If God said " In the day you eat thereof you shall surely die ,but dont worry I will allow you to escape the penalty then it wouldnt be too serious for adam or eve . Just like when preachers tell heathen a message of prosperity gospel that says dont worry , no matter what you do you can always come to Christ and be saved. It wouldnt matter to them what sins they commit and that is why we have churches full of people who come and go and come and go because they want the law and and the scapegoat right at their fingertips but dont want to come to grips with the literal meaning of the law saying if you eat this fruit , you shall surely die .
    Yes, Adam and Eve were going to die in that day , but just like we deserve to die and go to hell people cant call Jesus a liar because he died in our place as the spotless lamb without blemish .
    So to say I am saying God didnt mean what He said , Yes He did mean every bit of what He said , He just provided a lamb at that time and said this will die in your place tonight , you have no more access to the tree of life (which was keeping them alive at that time. If you think it wasnt , then why was it there ?) Yes over time would have to die since they cant eat of the tree of life which was the fountain of youth , so you will have to die one day years later , and death passed upon all men for adams sin . Since you have sinned you have been seperated from the presence of God and the only way to have access with God is to die with Christ like it says in romans six with your old man and be ressurected with him as a new creature in christ.( read romans 6} And satan could no longer accuse God of being unjust (see romans 3:24-26)because Jesus was that lamb like in genesis that died in our place . There was a death on that day in genesis just like there was a death 2000 years ago . It was Gods plan . The Substitution plan . Which is the death, the burial and the ressurection
     
  15. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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  16. athanaseusperez

    athanaseusperez
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    In reference to the whole " spiritual death " from all the people who hold such beliefs . Let me ask one question . If Adams spirit did die and we are all born spiritually (try to prove that we are born spiritually dead at least) Then look up the word spirit in the old testament and you will know if it is dead or alive . Let me at least quote a couple of verses . prov. 16:32 . Why would he have to worry about ruling his spirit if it is dead? What about when the bible says a wounded spirit who can bear ? Prov.18:14 Why would it hurt this mans spirit if his spirit is dead ? Anyway, just a thought
     
  17. PowerndBlood

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    "He just provided a lamb at that time and said this will die in your place tonight"

    CHAPTER AND VERSE IS WHERE?


    Here's a few souls that needed saved,

    Proverb:6:32: But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

    Eze:18:4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    Mic:6:7: Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?


    If i'm not mistaken they kept a total of something and it wasn't flesh.

    Ac:2:41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
     
  18. PowerndBlood

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    Try thinking of what the bible calls spiritual death, it is not death like the flesh has, it is ETERNITY without God or what is called the 2nd death in scripture.

    To God if you are not born again you are already considered spiritually dead.

    ***Lu:9:59: And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

    ***Lu:9:60: Jesus said unto him, "Let the dead bury their dead": but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

    The dead bury their dead?

    *edited because i can't type, sorry.
     
  19. LandonL

    LandonL
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    You seem like a very angry little man, and your attitude towards any discourse on your topic shows that any theological position you hold is not worth my time or energy. I asked a simple question and you made a jerk of yourself.

    Nice job showing the love of Christ in your life.
     
  20. Me2

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    Christ died so that only mans soul could be joined with Gods Spirit in absolute perfection, both in absolute time and infinite space.

    Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    every form of creation has two versions. the first and the second. the first is given and then taken away revealing the true version which is to exist absolutely.

    ie., law and grace,
    or flesh and spirit,
    or adam and christ

    linear time and finite space is the first version.
    it is taken away to be replaced by the second version..

    meaning our flesh body will be exchanged with another form of body that is not restricted by finite space.
    as it also will not be restricted by linear time.

    man receives a body like that described of the resurrected Christs "body".

    it "appears" to be physical, but its not.
     

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