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Did Christ's death, burial and ressurection secure salvation for anyone?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I Ask Again

    Where in Scripture does it say that Christ died for the goats as well as the sheep ? Chapter and verse please . Matthew 25:31-46 alone refutes your serious departure from God's Holy Word .
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    Before the cross, all men were sinking in sin because of one man's disobedience.

    Christ, through the blood shed on Mount Calvary, has thrown out a life ring for whosoever will.

    Just as a captain of a ship does his part by tossing out the life ring to all who are floating in the sea due to shipwreck, Christ did His part by offering salvation to all drowning in sin.

    Now, the drowning man must grab the ring or he will surely sink lifeless into the sea. The man in sin must also grab the life ring that has been thrown out in order to be rescued from drowning.

    God is not a respector of persons. He has offered that life ring to any and all who will just reach out and grasp it and take it unto them.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You Don't listen Very Well

    Show me that you are right with Scripture SFiC .
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    Rippon, Matthew 25 is the judgment of the nations. It is after the tribulation. Has nothing to do with the gift of Salvation to all in this present world.

    2 Corinthians 5 shows Christ died for all. To deny that is to deny the truth of God's Love for all mankind.
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 25 is all about the sheep and the goats . Humanity is divided into those two camps . The goats are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels . ( verse 41 -- NIV ) .

    You still haven't shown me and those viewing where the Bible speaks of dying for the goats . ( Hint :your doctrine isn't in the Word of God ! )
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Does God really love those whom He hates ?! Did He really love Esau after all ? The Word of God refutes your lame contentions .
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    The New Testament declares Christ died for all.

    Your contention is not with me, but with the Words inspired by the Holy Spirit to be penned down to attest to the truth of Christ's grace and mercy.

    Christ died for all. Scripture declares it.
    Christ promised to draw all. Scripture declares it.
    Christ offers Salvation to all. Scripture declares it.

    Believe it because it is His Word that has said it is so.
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It cannot be summed up better than Amy said it :thumbs:

    Somewhere npetreley is pulling his hair out :laugh:
     
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Are goats part of "all" or not? I don't recall reading that Christ tasted death for all men but the goats anywhere.
     
    #29 webdog, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2008
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...or your lame interpretation of what 'hate' means rob's God's grace. I know you need hate to mean absence of love...but it doesn't. GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You still have not furnished one verse stating that Christ died for the goats . But I know you can't provide the impossible -- just a little honesty was my hope for you .

    Since you won't deal with that ... If Christ promised to draw all as you said -- I guess you must be a Universalist , all will be saved . Or , if you do not believe all are saved , then you belive in a watered-down version of 'drawing' . If the latter is your belief ( shame on you for holding either view ) then your opinion flies in the face of John 6:37,39,44 and 65 . All of the drawn are savingly united with Christ . None of the drawn are partially moved in His direction .

    You have your work cut out for you SFiC .
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    That is what the following passage seems to say ...

    1 Timothy 4
    8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
    9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
    10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
    11 These things command and teach.

    So, instead of using the goats, I personally would like to use the words "all men". Isn't a Saviour one who saves?

    Unless you have a different interpretation.

    HankD​
     
  13. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Yes and we believe in a savior that actually saves. Not just one that pays a penalty that He can't seem to bring to fruition.
     
  14. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Also, Christ is the only savior. He is the only savior for both the saved and the unsaved.
    He is the only way.
    That doesn't mean He saves everyone but it does mean that He is the only savior.
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    So given the above Scripture...you are a universalist?

    10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    I see Calvinism as a doctrine that is opposed to the furtherance of the Gospel and the saving of souls.

    In John 12:32, Jesus said

    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.


    But the Calvinist's would have us believe, "Jesus did not really mean what He said." "He did not mean all."

    But, the Holy Spirit wanted us to be assured that Christ died for each and every person on this earth and that He offers that wonderful gift of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ to any and all who believe in Him.

    1 Timothy 2:1-4 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    God's will is that all men be saved. He offers Salvation to all. Yet Calvinist's will say, "Christ only offers that gift to the elect."

    Funny, since when did Calvin's or his constituent's words become more important and trustworthy than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself or more important than the Holy Spirit who gave the words to be written down that declare Who will have all men to be saved"?

    God's will is that all should be saved. Let's not stray away from or preach a doctrine contrary to this wonderful truth.

    Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

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    Great verse! Clearly shows God is not just the Saviour of those who believe, but all others as well.
     
  18. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Then you need to take your blinders off because it isn't.
    Tell C.H. Spurgeon and John Piper that calvinism is opposed to the furtherance of the Gospel.
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Dear brother Dale,
    Indeed He is a Savior who saves. It's not that He can't save all, He could, but He WON'T (not can't) bring the fruition of the new birth to those who will not receive Him.

    That is His perogative being God come in the flesh.

    HankD
     
  20. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Believers. It isn't an issue of whether all sin is paid for -- it IS. The issue in salvation is will or won't a person believe Christ/Messiah paid or not.

    If I pay a debt for you, you have 2 choices: 1) believe I paid it or 2) disbelieve I paid it. Believe or disbelieve had nothing to do with whether the debt is paid or not, does it? Now say that, though I told you I did pay the debt, you disbelieve me. You and I are not in a trusting relationship, are we? You cannot trust what I say, apparently.

    Same with God. If you can't believe what God says "point blank" about Christ at the cross --- "died for our sins, and not our sins only but the sins of the whole world" -- God and you are not in a trusting relationship, are you? And you are LIKELY to seek some other explanation that suits YOU at the point of your distrust OR IOW, as the Bible puts it, "serves another master" or maybe 2 masters at once (God and, say, Calvinism). That might even seem to "cover all the bases having both the Bible and Calvinist theology (kinda like the Bible and the Book of Mormon to the Mormons) but that wouldn't be a trusting relationship if they don't agree right down the line, would it?

    It seems pretty simple to me -- don't let another "master" hang you up on "doubtful disputations." Christ paid for ALL sins -- "Limited Atonement" is a sham -- Calvinism, which is built on this and several other shams, is Calvin-trusting but not God-trusting.

    skypair
     
    #40 skypair, Mar 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2008
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