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did Enoch die ?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by wopik, Oct 10, 2004.

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  1. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    I see. the rapture folks have to believe people in the OT go to heaven -- get their reward before any other believing faithful. Even though Paul says no one has this pre-eminence except JESUS.

    The rest of us (OT and NT Sainsts) will get the promises together (Hebrews 11:39-40) --- "that they without us should not be made perfect".
     
    #101 wopik, Oct 18, 2004
  2. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    UP -- UP ----UP ----- up is not Heaven. UP is up in the clouds (the earth's atmosphere) "to meet Jesus in the AIR", then He brings us all back here to planet Earth to "reign on the EARTH" - Rev 5:10.

    And Jesus will give us "power over the NATIONS" - Rev 2:26.

    "For the kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord...." --- Rev 11:15

    *******************************

    "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom..." -- Daniel 7:27.
     
    #102 wopik, Oct 18, 2004
  3. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    This can easily be misunderstood, as I can myself attest to.

    How far UP does the wind go? Certainly we have all seen the great lifting power of a whirlwind or tornado.

    Elijah never left the Earth's atmosphere.

    The sons of the prophets who knew that their master was to be removed (2 Kings 2:3,5) also knew Elijah was not to die then or leave the Earth. That is why they were fearful that the Spirit of God might have allowed him to drop "upon some mountain, or into some valley" (2Kg. 2:16).

    The Earth's atmosphere is also called heaven: "....and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven - Gen 1:20.
     
    #103 wopik, Oct 18, 2004
  4. danrusdad

    danrusdad New Member

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    but where did he land?
     
    #104 danrusdad, Oct 19, 2004
  5. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    the only place Enoch could have gone when he died was to his grave where all the righteous dead await the first resurrection. See 1.Cor.15:50-52; 1.Thes.4:13-17.
     
    #105 wopik, Oct 19, 2004
  6. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    #106 wopik, Oct 19, 2004
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    A Letter Comes from Elijah!

    http://bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.showResource/name/EnochEli.htm     </font>[/QUOTE]2Chron 21 is often used by Jehovah's Witnesses and others to claim that after God took Elijah to Heaven - Elijah came back and started writing letters so that he could die on earth.

    But they rely on the reader not knowing about the co-regency facts.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #107 BobRyan, Oct 29, 2004
  8. 7-Kids

    7-Kids New Member

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    Vs. 13 refer to vs 12 only </font>[/QUOTE]Diddo
     
    #108 7-Kids, Oct 29, 2004
  9. Seth3

    Seth3 New Member

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    Lazarus also died but Jesus said "Lazarus sickness was not unto death" Yet He paradoxically says "Lazarus is DEAD". This can be seen inside the pictures of those who died NOT receiving the promises.

    Proverbs says, Hope DEFERRED makes the HEART SICK (the Sickness of Lazarus as expressed through those who DIED NOT receiving the promises) YET a LONGING FULFILLED is the TREE OF LIFE. Lazarus' sickness was the Hope deferred (As Christ TARRIED and held off from Coming to Lazarus seen as WAITING TWO MORE DAYS). Why?

    Because PRECIOUS in the sight of the Lord is the DEATH of His Saints. What death is this that God desires? As in Hoping against all hope. We also have a Hope which is as the longing fulfilled in Proverbs (the Tree of Life) which is Christ IN US.

    So we are always GIVEN OVER TO DEATH (As Paul says) so that the LIFE OF CHRIST (Tree of life) BE REVEALED IN US. The Hope of laying Hold of Christ for which He lays hold of us is the hope of Ressurection of the Dead shown in Lazarus.

    The Jews said, "Could not this man Jesus KEPT THIS THIS MAN FROM DYING"? Jesus was TROUBLED at their understanding of this. Lazarus NEEDED TO DIE as Paul died (Not physically) but the Old man that the New man in Christ be raised within Him.

    Enoch as Paul walked with God and BOTH WERE NOT God Took them. They were spiritually translated. The flesh counts for nothing. The old man is the Soul (as the Eye is as the lamp of the body) God takes one away leaving the other (Christ that He might remain). An Eye for an Eye. If thy Eye causes you to Sin (Spiritually speaking) is as the Bondwoman and her Son being cast off or as an Eye being plucked away.

    Eye (Soul of man whose eye is darkened) for an Eye (The New Man in Christ who is the lamp of the body).

    These are Spiritual truths to me. But God teaches, He grows understanding thats for Him.

    God bless

    Seth3
     
    #109 Seth3, Oct 29, 2004
  10. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    The "hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2).


    so all the believers before Abraham, like Abel, Enoch and Noah received the promise of eternal life?
     
    #110 wopik, Oct 29, 2004
  11. Seth3

    Seth3 New Member

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    Wopic says,

    so all the believers before Abraham, like Abel, Enoch and Noah received the promise of eternal life?


    Seth3 replies

    Well Just as The Trees are figurative and the women are firgurative I see them all as being a pattern that FOLLOWS AFTER CHRIST. Thats How Christ can say, "Before Abraham I am". I see Paul the Appostle as the True Abraham and Father of our Faith.

    This would then confirm scripture which speak of these as a shadow of the good things coming not the realities themselves.


    Let me repeat that because it always gets lost.

    The law is a SHADOW and IS NOT the realities in themselves.

    Thus BEFORE ABRAHAM (Before this Faith came) I AM therefore as PAUL SAID CONCERNING HIMSELF. He was the FATHER OF OUR FAITH.

    Now it all flows and agrees with scripture together instead of contradict.

    Thats why they Judged Christ by His age and said your not yet 50 (or whatever age) and you say before Abraham you were. They were looking at the Old AS THE REALITIES not as a fore reflection of the True realities that awaited.

    The True Father of our Faith is Paul in relationship to Abraham. Paul said He has become our Father of those who have Faith in type.

    We have One Father God, absolutely but Paul did share this concerning Himself. I see Him as the Abraham that as Christ came before Him (Then Paul the True Father of our Faith AS Abraham).


    In Reference to Abraham


    Romans 4:16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


    Concerning Paul


    1Corinth 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU through the gospel.

    Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be NOT as though they were.

    1Corinth 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.


    Seth3

    [ October 29, 2004, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]
     
    #111 Seth3, Oct 29, 2004
  12. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Genesis 5
    21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah.
    22 And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.
    23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years.
    24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.


    God took him. God took my Uncle Billy away at age 89. Enoch faired much better. God took him at 365.


    Genesis 5:21-24 :: New International Version (NIV) -- link
     
    #112 wopik, Oct 31, 2004
  13. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    hello seth3

    .

    Abraham is the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised..... (Romans 4:11).


    Christians are also suppose to keep the seventh day Sabbath because we belong to and believe in Christ -- "And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed [children], and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29).


    The Church -- the called out ones -- is the "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16 / Psalms 125:5).


    "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter...." (Romans 2:25-29).

    Christians are grafted in among them [Israel] (Romans 11: 13-26).
     
    #113 wopik, Oct 31, 2004
  14. Seth3

    Seth3 New Member

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    Yes I agree Wopic. We recieve the sign of circumcision done in the heart by the Spirit of the living God. Abraham had TWO children from one would be the recconliation of the other.

    The one seen as cast away that the gentiles be grafted in so the reciving back of them would mean life back from the dead. Yes I agree.

    God Bless

    Seth3
     
    #114 Seth3, Oct 31, 2004
  15. freakpastor

    freakpastor New Member

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    So meaningless!!! What is the benefit to this discussion? Next thing you know someone will say, "But--was Enoch taken on the Sabbath?"
     
    #115 freakpastor, Nov 1, 2004
  16. Seth3

    Seth3 New Member

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    Can you add meaning to the discussion rather then toss insults a it or are you just a bit upset that you cannot rule our thoughts on a subject?
    Actually The disciples "discussed things among themselves" they didn't pretend to have all the answers like those who lorded over them.


    God Bless

    Seth3
     
    #116 Seth3, Nov 1, 2004
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