Did God Cause 9-11-01?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by No Deceit, Nov 15, 2003.

  1. No Deceit

    No Deceit
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    Yes.

    It is phenomenal how many "Christians" we have met who do not believe God kills people. This issue is typically a common point of contention between us and those who oppose us. Yet, the fact that God does indeed kill people is so "in-our-face" obvious both in daily life as God takes people out, and in the Biblical record, that it is truly safe to say, only a fool would believe otherwise. This "God doesn't kill people" mentality is akin to what is found in an out of print Seventh-day Adventists' booklet entitled Till the Morning. This booklet states,

    "God is often blamed for death. I have seen people come bitter and hate God because they thought He took an innocent child's life. On the contrary, there is much evidence that God is the Life-giver -- the Source of life -- not the life-taker." (Till the Morning, by Oral E. Fisher, copyright 1971 by the Review and Herald Publishing Association, p. 21

    This is so stupid. God is indeed "the life-taker." For just a few examples, Scripture records for us that He killed (i.e. took the life of) every single human being on the entire face of the earth, all except 8 people, in the flood (Genesis 6:7, 13, 17; 7:21-23). He killed the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them (Genesis 19:24-25). He killed Judah's sons, Er and Onan (Genesis 38:7-10; 1 Chronicles 2:3). He sought to kill Moses, but Zipporah spared him this fate (Exodus 4:24-26). The Lord killed all the firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:29). And, even though it is recorded that Saul committed suicide, Scripture still notes that "He killed him." (1 Chronicles 10:4-6, 13-14).

    Moreover, in only one incident, the Lord killed thousands of the Israelites for complaining (Numbers 16:41-49). Yet, He killed them for complaining more than once (Numbers 11:1; 21:5-6). In Exodus 22:22-24 He warned that He would kill them if they afflicted any widow or fatherless child. And as it turned out, Scripture records that the Lord was not well-pleased with the Israelites, so "their bodies were scattered in the wilderness" (1 Corinthians 10:5). In other words, He killed them.

    The Lord killed Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, for worshipping Him in the wrong way (Leviticus 10:1). The Lord opened up the earth and swallowed alive Korah and his company (Numbers 16:30-33). The Lord killed Nabal (1 Samuel 25:38). The Lord struck Uzzah dead when he touched the ark (2 Samuel 6:1-7). The Lord killed Jeroboam (2 Chronicles 13:20). The Lord killed Jehoram (2 Chronicles 21:18-19). And, when He so pleases (Psalm 115:3), the Lord not only desires to kill, but prevents any circumstance that would stand in the way of His killing. For this was the case with Eli's sons, as it is written, Eli said to his sons,

    "If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord, who will intercede for him?" Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the Lord desired to kill them. (1 Samuel 2:25)

    Furthermore, God killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:1-11), and He killed Herod for not giving glory to Him (Acts 12:20-23). Isaiah prophesied the Lord would slay the wicked in Isaiah 65:15, and Jesus promised the church in Thyatira that He would kill the children of Jezebel (Revelation 2:23). God not only slays the wicked, but the righteous as well, as Job said.

    Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. (Job 13:15)

    Jesus warned,

    And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! (Luke 12:4-5)

    It is downright stupidity to say that God "is not the life-taker," or to intimate in any way that God does not kill. He indeed takes life, as He Himself says,

    Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; nor is there any who can deliver from My hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39)

    Romans 11:36 says, "all things" are "of Him and through Him and to Him." Any and all who die, die by the hand of God. For it is all His doing (Psalm 65:7-9; 66:1-12; 107; 118:22-24). It is all His work (Job 36:24-33:24; Psalm 104). And, yes,

    The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. (1 Samuel 2:6)

    This killing includes even babies, as God says in Hosea 9:16

    Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up; they shall bear no fruit. Yes, were they to bear children, I would kill the darlings of their womb. (see also Numbers 31:17; Deuteronomy 2:34; 20:10-18; Psalm 137:9; Isaiah 13:11-16; Hosea 9:12-16; 13:16; Nahum 3:10).

    Therefore, the Lord does indeed kill and did cause 9-11-01. What are your thoughts and views.

    In His love,
    al soto
    http://www.atruechurch.info
     
  2. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
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    Well, I went to your web site.

    Seems you have it misnamed. Shouldn't it be called THE true church dot com? You all don't agree with anyone on the planet except the others of your little cult, do you?

    I'm sure it's going to be a lot of fun having you around for as long as you stay.

    Hehehe!!!
     
  3. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
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    Oh hey!!

    BTW there true believer....I have a little publication on the Internet, compliments of a friend.

    PRIVATE INTERPRETATION AND FRUITCAKE

    Why doncha gowan over and read it. Sounds like yer bud, Mr. Fish, belongs right in this crowd.

    Happy Reading!!

    Ed the Papist.
     
  4. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    'In my opinion I believe that Almighty God was giving Americans a wake-up call to return to Him in faith. In my lifetime I have seen America 'kick the Lord out of the schools, {like Bible in the library and a daily reading at the beginning of the school day. My elders used to do this} and then they wonder why students have no guiding light when teachers hands a tied in even being a witness to the Gospel.

    Homosexuality used to be laughed at by heterosexuals and as a kid I never heard the word abortion. Our T.V. programming is very poor, content wise, and violence is portrayed many times in just one evenings sitting.

    Although I am thankful for our relative security in my beloved nation, it seems to me that Americans trust in the military power of America rather than acknowledging God's great power over us in keeping us safe from our adversaries.

    In many cases youth today will walk right past adults unless you say Hi to them first. They either look down on older people or simply don't care to communicate. Is this an indication of our depersonalized American society?

    Did the Lord God allow the Jews to be killed in 70 A.D. in Jerusalem? Did their blood run red in the streets of His beloved city? Did the Lord disperse His own people into all of the then known world?

    If God did not Providentially allow 9--11 then He is no longer in control of all things in our world. The evil one placed this wicked idea into the hearts of the Muslims, but God used this to open our eyes as to how fast and how far down the road to destruction Americans are moving.

    For a couple of weeks people thought about God's power and authority; I personally saw and was part of college youth saying prayers and pledging allegiance to the American flag at Penn State University, the Fogelsville branch. I am afraid we are again back into our old routine of just occasionally, 'tipping our hat to the Lord' and that's about it.

    I feel sorry for the nearly 3,000 souls that died on that day and have prayed for their families many times. So many people were greviously hurt by this American loss. But, do we hurt as much for those who died this past week in Sauda Arabia? We should.

    I as a pastor believe that the Lord is telling His church {Christians} that He is about to return for His own people in the cloud. [I Thess. 4:17]

    Do I believe that God killed the people in the Twin Towers? Without any doubt, yes. Will we listen to His shouting in our ears, or will we be like the Israelites, who seldom really heard or acted on what He was saying to them?

    Jesus is not only like the portrait picture with Him carrying the small lamb in His arms; He also acts in anger toward those who have ignored or rejected His call to a faith--trust in Jesus Christ.' [Hebrews 10:30-31]

    'Vengeance belongeth to Me . . . . It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.'

    'Knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men . . . ' [II Corinthians 5:11]

    Pastor Ray Berrian, Th.D.
     
  5. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG] Pastor Ray,

    You said:

    Did the Lord God allow the Jews to be killed in 70 A.D. in Jerusalem? Did their blood run red in the streets of His beloved city? Did the Lord disperse His own people into all of the then known world?

    IMO, yes, he did allow the Jews to be slain in 70 A.D. because they did not accept His Son as Savior, and continued to do animal sacrafices. So He let the Romans take apart their temple.

    Working for Jesus,

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  6. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
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    Immediately after 9/11, I read many posts that were VERY ADAMANT that God would NEVER cause such a tragedy, because "GOD IS LOVE". There were just as many that were bound to believe that it was God that initiated the whole affair, and no other reason could account for it.

    My personal belief is that it was a "wake-up call" and God ALLOWED it. No proof that I'm right, so I'll not be adamant about it. By the same token, there's no PROOF that any of the other scenarios are correct either, so don't get your(collective "YOUR") dander up when someone disagrees.

    Now since we know that God is in total control, AND we apply the lessons from Job, we can be certain that the LEAST God did was allow the disaster.

    Too many people forget that the picture of Jesus "with the lamb" is just one side of the same coin; the other side being "the judge of all nations".
     
  7. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    tamborine lady,

    My questions about Jerusalem and 70 A.D. were retorical questions.

    I know He caused the deaths of the Israelites and their flight from the city.

    Ray
     
  8. Johnv

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    My thoughts? Suffice it to say that there is an unfortunate number of people who simply lack the ability to discern between what God ALLOWS and God CAUSES. :rolleyes:

    I suppose next you'll be telling me that God made my ex-wife cheat on me and shack up with her lover. [​IMG]
     
  9. PastorGreg

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    "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the LORD, do all these things." Is. 45:7
     
  10. No Deceit

    No Deceit
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    Even in the example of Job that was given, we see in chapter two God reaveals who is ultimately responsbile for the destruction against Job. Himself.

    Job 2:
    1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2And the LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?"
    Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."
    3Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause."

    God not only allowed Satan to destroy his life, but God caused it! So wicked men flew planes itno the building, but is was God who caused it to be.

    In His love,
    al soto
     
  11. No Deceit

    No Deceit
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    Where John does it teach that God allows something to happen without it ultimately being from God's hand?

    al
     
  12. Johnv

    Johnv
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    The essence of man having the freedom to choose to sin or not to sin is a continuous biblical thread. Romans 8 connects the frustration of our creation to our sin. All evil is the result of sin. God did not cause 9-11, man did. God will not prevent a man from sinning, for God created persons. He did not create puppets. James 1:13-15 states that God does not even tempt people to sin, but they are led astray by their own evil desires. 1 John 2:16 tells us that the sins of the world are not of the Father. Even Eccl 7:29 tell us that God did not make man with an inclination to sin, but we chose sin anyway. Lastly, Genesis 3 assures us that Satan, not God, is the author of sin.

    It would be unbiblical for YOU to get into your car and plow into a crowd of people at the mall, and say that God caused you to do it, or that you were doing the will of God.

    It would be unbiblical for YOU to commit adultery on your wife and then say that God caused you to do it, or that you were doing the will of God.

    It would be unbiblical for you to rob a bank and then say to the police who capture you that God caused you to do it, or that you were doing the will of God.
     
  13. No Deceit

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    John,

    Do you know that God "causes" people to sin?
     
  14. No Deceit

    No Deceit
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    2 Samuel 24
    (1) 1 Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."
    2So the king said to Joab the commander of the army who was with him, "Now go throughout all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and count the people, that I may know the number of the people."
    3And Joab said to the king, "Now may the LORD your God add to the people a hundred times more than there are, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king desire this thing?" 4Nevertheless the king's word prevailed against Joab and against the captains of the army.
    10 And David's heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O LORD, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly."
     
  15. Johnv

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    If God causes me to sin, then I should give into my sinful desire, do God's will, and beat you to a pulp with a 2x4 for what in my opinion are your off-the-wall views. You wouldn't have a problem with that, would you? After all, I'd be doing God's will.
     
  16. No Deceit

    No Deceit
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    Out of the abudance of the heart the mouth speaks.

    Romans 6:1
    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

    In His love,
    al soto

    PS. You avoided the plain example above.
     
  17. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Now that's the pot calling the kettle black.
     
  18. No Deceit

    No Deceit
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    John, did God cause David to sin?

    al
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv
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    The question is: Did God force David to sin? No. He sinned out of his own accord. God did not make David sin.

    Now respond to my post.
     

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