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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Jan 13, 2010.
The old POE. Who is in control anyway?
Amos 3:6b states:
Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
The implied answer is "yes." This disaster, while unthinkable and horrific beyond words, has befallen Haiti and the disaster is God's will.
Now, we could ask "are they so evil that they deserve this?" That would be the wrong question for we all deserve ten million times worse because we are all sinners and are deserving of an immediate and crushing end.
The right question would be "why did God spare us (who don't live in Port au Prince)?"
May God be praised for His grace to the rest of the world. May God bless the people of Haiti with gospel-carrying aid workers and may there be a great harvest of souls because of this tragedy.
Did God cause the earthquake in Haiti? Yes, and it is a judgment on sin.
I don't say that God caused the calamity in Haiti, but that he has allowed these things to happen. The reason is a result of a fallen creation. In the garden of Eden, man choose to turn away from God in spite of having a close relationship with Him. The result is that God has cursed the earth and His creation as a judgment on sin. Part of that curse is natural disasters such as earthquakes and hurricanes and the like. It just so happened that this time an earthquake struck Haiti, just like Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans.
Not in the way the question implies. Earthquakes are normal and fequent whevever two tectonic plates border each other. Haiti sits on the boundary of two tectonic plates. Choosing to reside in an area bordered by two tectonic plates is like holding up a sign saying "Earthquake, please stop here".
We here in Southern California get earthquakes several times a day. If it's not at least a 5.0, it's little more than lunch conversation. We have common saying that if you find playing on the highway desirable, expect to get hit by a car. Haiti is sitting on the freeway, and it just got hit by a car. It's expected.
I agree with Robert Snow's post. God didn't cause the earthquake in Haiti, but he has allows these things to happen, out of our choice to live in a fallen world, where the rain can be expected to fall on the just and unjust alike.
Not for any divine or spiritual reason. You were spared most likely because you don't live on a faultline.
God made the earth. Do you think that when he made it he did not understand the way the plates would border each other and cause earthquakes? Do you think that he did not know that people would live in this area of the world? Of course he knew these things. God constructed the earth in such a way that these earthquakes would happen. He is the cause of these earthquakes. God knows how this earth is constructed so much better than we do....he even knows exactly when the earthquakes will happen (and he's known since the beginning).
To say that he is not the cause (and I'm not implying you said that), is to say that God didn't know what he was doing when he created the earth.
Did anyone say differently? Of course God understands how His creation works. However, the people of Haiti chose to live there. It is, therefore, their decision to live in a quake zone, and not God's desire for their destruction which caused their destruction. I"m not saying you're implying this, but some others appear to be.
Sure, but there's a difference between saying God causes earthquakes and God caused the destruction at hand. God made the sea, but if a man who can't swim chooses to jump into it, God didn't cause the man to drown.
The sea analogy doesn't work. God did cause the destruction. He created the earthquake by setting up the earth in such a way that it would quake. He knew when he was creating the earth that the earthquake would happen when it did. He chose (in his infinite wisdom) to still create the earth in that fashion. So, yes, God did cause the destruction. Why? I have no earthly idea, but I'll find out when I get to heaven.
A better analogy, perhaps, is my previous "highway" analogy. It is normal for cars to go down the highway. If you're going to build a house on the highway, you can expect to get hit by a car. While a car on the highway can technically be the cause of your house getting hit, the true cause of the house getting hit is the fact that you chose to build your house where you did.
In the same manner, the true cause of the destruction in Haiti is the choice of people to build on the border of two tectonic borders.
I can tell you why. Earthquakes relieve pressure caused by two tectonic plates rubbing together. Now, why God chose to create tectonic plates is beyond me, but I'm glad He did, because it makes the earth the fantastic thing that it is.
I believe earthquakes are a result of a fallen world, simply because they cause death. I also believe that disasters are by the hand of Satan, but that God allows it. This is clearly shown in the life of Job.
Did God "allow" the calamity in Job's life or did He cause it? That's the question.
He allowed it. Have you read Job?
It is clear that Satan caused Job's suffering.
When Adam sinned all Creation was adversely affected. Earthquakes are the natural result of the Fall, just as Volcanos, Floods, Hurricanes, etc.
I suspect that if GOD were going to initiate an earthquake it would be at Sodom by the Sea. Of course they are near the San Andrea's fault!
All that being said my heart goes out to the people of Haiti. They have so little anyhow!
"Pity should be shown to the afflicted, but in too many cases it is not so, for a hard logic argues that those who suffer more than ordinary calamities must have been extraordinary sinners." ---Charles Spurgeon, Treasury of David (Psalm 79)
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
"Our Lord gave them an answer, but it was a short and curt one. He himself was not looking at the blind man from their point of view, he was not considering how the man came to be blind, but how his eyes could be opened. He was not so much meditating upon the various metaphysical and moral difficulties which might arise out of the case, but upon what would be the best method to remove from the man his suffering, and deliver him from his piteous plight; a lesson to us, that instead of enquiring how sin came into the world, we should ask how can we get it out of the world; and instead of worrying our minds about how this providence is consistent with justice, and how that event can tally with benevolence, we should see how both can be turned to practical account. The Judge of all the earth can take care of himself; he is not in any such difficulties that he needs any advice of ours; only presumptuous unbelief ever dares suppose the Lord to be perplexed. It will be much better for us to do the work of him that sent us, than to be judging divine providence, or our fellow men. It is ours, not to speculate, but to perform acts of mercy and love, according to the tenor of the gospel. Let us then be less inquisitive and more practical, less for cracking doctrinal nuts, and more for bringing forth the bread of life to the starving multitudes. ---Charles Spurgeon, The Spur
Jerome, can you not speak for yourself?
Oh yes, I've read job. But, I'm wondering if you have
Job 1 says:
20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”
22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.
According to Job, it is God who has taken away. The portrayal is that God is the active agent, not passive.
Job 2 says:
...Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil [or disaster]? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
According to this the evil or disaster came from God Himself. Again the portrayal is God is actively afflicting Job.
And, the inspired writer of the book says in Job's assigning blame to God alone that Job "did not sin with his lips or charge God with wrong."
So the answer to the question of who caused the calamity in Job's life is simply this: God.
I would say he did. I don't know the mind of God as to why in this case, but a nation dedicated to Satan can't be pleasing to Him.
The scripture you quoted is from Job's perspective.
Job*1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job*1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
God allowed Satan to attack Job. "All that he hath is in thy power".
Joh*10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
1Pe*5:8 ¶ Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Job*1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
The only reason Satan had not been successful in attacking Job earlier was because God had put a hedge of protection around him. All He has to do is remove His hand and the devil has his way.
The Job passage attributes the destruction to God Himself and to God alone...and this from Job's lips. So regardless of Satan's role, God is still the one who caused these things to happen to Job. Job says God is the cause and it is not a sin for him to say so, for it is true.
Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:2-3