Did God Create.... God?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by RRHeustisJr, Aug 2, 2003.

  1. RRHeustisJr

    RRHeustisJr
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    John 1:3 says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

    The phrase, "all things", is all inclusive - no exception. Any and every "thing" that exists is a "thing", and therefore God made it all.

    God always was and always will be. He is the great eternal.

    But is God a "thing"?

    Did God create Himself?

    If He did not create Himself, then is there a paradox with John 1:3?

    If He did create Himself, then how can something that always was create itself?
     
  2. Yelsew

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    Seems there is a difference between "Created" and "made".
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    This topic is out of place here. Is being moved to a more appropriate place.
     
  4. Helen

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    This question is asking us to go outside our time/space/mass frame of reference, and we can't do that. God created time, space, and mass. This is all we know. The questioner is trying to imagine God Himself subject to His creation. He not only is not subject to it, but at this point we are and cannot imagine eternal existance.

    God identified Himself as the I AM. That is it. Until we are out of this frame of reference and aware of another one, it is an exercise in futility to imagine what being out of the time/space/mass continuum is like, or how God IS.

    We will have to wait, I think... [​IMG]
     
  5. Jim1999

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    Eternalness is signified by a circle; it has no beginning and it has no end. God always is. He neither created nor made Himself.

    I see no problem with the text in question.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Me2

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    God is self existant..and

    but did God the father create man to be eternal worshipers of Our Lord?

    If Our Lord Jesus Christ is God the Son . And we possess his spirit and are eternal.
    did man, in spirit form, exist in eternity past with God in his Spirit Realm, as we are represented in revelations as worshiping Our God eternally.?

    If Man (resurrected spirit) came into existence at the moment Jesus was raised from the dead. or defeated death or expressed himself perfect.

    or another way of saying this is man "was" raised with Jesus before linear time in eternity past.
    or in absolute time.

    is revelations a way of telling Gods Sons that they existed in eternity past.and now In the physical linear present time and will exist in their Eternal future.? as we see that they are represented by the act of eternally Worshipping Our Lord.

    Ive noticed this idea popping up in various points in scripture. such as the creation groaning, waiting for the unveiling..of the sons of God. or their ongoing comprehension of Gods living Hope in their present form.

    does anyone else see this in scripture as the unveiling of jesus as well as discovering that the sons of God are also a part of theis unveiling?

    Do we see that Revelations is an ultimate picture to man, of the sovereignty of their Creator God.

    I know..circular reasoning, right

    Me2
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Oh man, I hate agreeing with Helen and Jim... :D

    But, every now and then when they go along with the Bible, I have to. God always was and once you can fathom the beginning of time when there was nothing but God, you will have but only begun to scratch the surface of the eternalness of God. Don't dwell on it too much though, because you will go crazy trying to understand the eternal nature of God. With our limited pea brain perspectives, we cannot understand these things. That is why God gives us faith to accept these things.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. Jim1999

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    We never speak of eternal man, either in flesh or in spirit. Man is mortal and has his being oly because of the finger of God. Man, twice-born, will join in with eternity in his spiritual state.

    Scripture never speaks of man as having a prior life in any form.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    PS. Joseph, handsome bloke that you are, you could do worse than agree with either Helen or myself, but it must feel good to be right now and then.... ;)
     
  9. timothy 1769

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    perhaps not every verse is meant to be analyzed like a computer program. sometimes the bible speaks to men after the manner of men, like when we say "i've searched everywhere for my keys" or "nothing will satisfy him" or similar statements people use all the time.

    or maybe it's just that i'm an evil bible denying heretic. you decide [​IMG]
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Jim,

    Actually, I would have to say that I am RIGHT of center the majority of the time, so you must have been referring to yourself... ;)

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Jim1999

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    Actually, I would have to say that I am RIGHT of center
    _______________________________________________

    I don't know what RIGHT of centre means. Doesn't it depend on who is at the centre? In our political system, right and left are relative terms depending on who is prime minister and what he/she believes.

    Theologically, who sets the centre (other than the bible itself, which is open to interpretation)?

    If I take the Westminster Confession, then I am bang on. Yet, on some things I would prolly be called liberal or left of centre...depending on the caller. Then, if I didn't believe I was right, then I would be wrong to begin with.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Artimaeus

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    Apparrently, twisting scriptures is the favorite passtime of a lot of people. It says,"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." Since God wasn't "made" the "all" wasn't talking about God.
     
  13. Mike McK

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    Christ did not create the God. God did not create Jesus.

    God, by His very nature is eternally preexistant.

    Logic assumes that the creator is seperate from he creation, so we must assume that Christ is not included in the phrase "all things".
     
  14. Paul of Eugene

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    When I think about where God came from, there is no other source great enough for His origen than God Himself.

    One of the characteristics of an infinite number is that a subset of the number can be equal to the whole.

    For those of us who are finite, to completely contemplate ourselves is logically impossible. We run out of neurons trying to picture our own neurons, should we attempt to do it in detail.

    But God is able to completely hold an image of Himself in His mind due to the afore mentioned property of infinity.

    I consider God in His aspect of being the source of Himself as God the Father.

    I consider God in His aspect of proceding form Himself as God the Son.

    This is not an in time thing, this is an eternal state of being kind of thing.

    Cantor, who first described mathematically the characteristics of infinite numbers, was a christian and also believed these numbers had relevance to portraying the nature of God.
     
  15. John Wells

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    "Praise be to you, O LORD, God of our father Israel, from everlasting to everlasting. (1 Chr 29:10 NIV)

    God never began to exist. He has no past and no future.

    Time marks the beginning of created existance, and because God never began to exist it can have no application to Him. "Began" is a time-word, and can have no personal meaning for the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity.

    "God has no origin," said Novatian. One who is the cause of all but is himself caused by none. "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM . . ." (Exo 3:14 KJV)
     
  16. untangled

    untangled
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    I just don't understand how someone could come up with that from John 1:3.

    We are only human and it is hard for us to comprehend the eternal since we are born and we all die bodily. God created time and that is what we know. I'm just glad we have the rest of eternity with Christ! Amen and Amen.
     
  17. Jim1999

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    I believe man created time. Time is of no benefit to God in His eternality. Time only has relevance to humankind. We understand in space and time, but are lost in eternalness.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. tyndale1946

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    Take away everything that was ever created and there is still God the Creator... God the Father... God the Son... And God the Holy Ghost... The three in one eternal Godhead... That make up God the Creator!... All have ever been and will always be GOD!... How can mortal man humanity understand immortal God divinity?... Only by God's revelation of who he is can he ever!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     

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