Did God die last week?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 13, 2008.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    So one would think judging from the fear, anxiety, terror, hatred, venom, bitterness, and doom and gloom being expressed by many elements of the American church. Every place I look online, and Christians in America that I talk to, are in an absolute panic over the election.

    Lets say the very worst happens - on January 20th Sen Obama walks out for his inauguration in African tribal garb with black storm troopers and after his swearing in (on the Qaran) immediately declares martial law and the coming introduction of Sharia law. He orders the immediate closure of all Christian churches and the killing of all imperfect new borns. He follows that up by announcing that Osama Bin Laden is being called in as a special advisor on the transition to making America into a Muslim state.

    Well, you get the idea.

    The question is- 'Will God be dead?' "Will His church survive?'

    God's children through the years have endured Pharaoh, Nero, Hitler, and many others.

    What is it that people are so afraid of? Losing their comforts? Losing their prestige and status? Becoming hated and despised by the world? Isn't that where the church is told it will be in the New Testament? Do we ever read a single time in God's word where we are going to be controlling or even accepted by society around us?

    Is the fear over what Peter writes in 1 Peter 3v14-18?

    IF (and I am not so sure of the fact) persecution is coming, should the American church not be counting it as 'all joy?" (James 1v2) and be willing to take it patiently (1 Peter 2v20)? After all, when the church goes through persecution we are being blessed by the privilage of following in His steps (1 Peter 2v21). Has the church forgotten 2 Timothy 1v12 - 'For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. '?
     
    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2008
  2. Crabtownboy

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    God and God's people are never stronger than when they are persecuted.

    I have been told that Christian churches in the Baltic States are in a crisis. Why? Because they are no longer being persecuted. They lived so long with persecution that now they feel they must be dong something wrong because there is no perseuction.
     
  3. 4His_glory

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    That about sums it up I think. Great post Roger.

    I would add that for some reason, American Christianity, believes that the church rises and falls based on what happens in the US. But God does not need the United States of America.
     
  4. 4His_glory

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    Interesting. As has been said many times: the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.
     
  5. Crabtownboy

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    There is fairly strong evidence that the center of Christianity is moving westward ... so far west as to be in the Far East in the near future.
     
  6. blackbird

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    Good post, Roger(the OP)---I concur with you 100%

    From my vantage point, I would concur with 4His_glory also

    Many believers here in the US have mixed/mingled US politics with the church----we bend & twist 2Chronicles 7:14 every which a-way to make it apply to the United States and there are "givens" in the church here in the US who worship the military as if King David himself were Commander-in-Chief---------some get the idea that the White House is New Jerusalem or something and that we just "gotta have" a Christian president who goes to church Sunday morning, evenings, and again for Wednesday Prayer time and Bible Study

    I have to remind my church over and over again that the church exists even beyond "Sea to shinin' Sea"---and that the four corners of the earth stretch out beyond the city limits of New York City on the east, San Francisco on the west, Buffalo, NY on the North and Corpus Christi on the south

    America is not in real big trouble because "we" believe we have the wrong President---------we are in trouble when "we"(the church) believe that the US is part of God's Paradise

    Blackbird
     
  7. fluke

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    God has placed Obama in the White House for reasons known only to Him, and we are commanded to pray for our leaders. (I Timothy 2), but keep our eyes peeled, too (2 Peter 2:17-19, Psalms 28:4).
     
  8. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Yea Yea Yea, God is still on the throne, and his kingdom will be established without help from PONTUS or any other king of this world.

    What I am hearing is that persecution is good and we should all be happy.

    Well forget that :{

    My anxiety and sorrow over our political state has nothing to do with the state of my soul or of God’s kingdom.

    But I still mourn the loss of what was not only a great country but a great voice for Christ in this world. How many around the world heard the gospel because of the United States? How many missionaries, C4K, were and are supported by American Dollars? And when the Dollar goes in the tank vs. the Euro how many missionaries on the field suffer today?

    The seat of Christianity has moved before and will move again. A couple thousand years ago it was missionaries from Jerusalem and Antioch that took the gospel to Rome. Missionaries from Rome brought it to Europe. Missionaries from Europe once served on the field of the American Colonies. British missionaries carried the gospel to Africa, India, and China. I have no doubt that the day will come when missionaries from the Philippines or somewhere else will outnumber those supported by the United States.

    But I still mourn the loss of what once was. Did Israel not mourn when Jerusalem fell? Do you think Daniel rejoiced when taken away?
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

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    God is not dead. However, did that stop the Nazis from making consentration camps and killing 6 million jews and only the lord knows how many other races like the Roma or the travelers since you're in Ireland? God being soverign allowed that. What will God permit with us? Does he not say when you see these things occuring then to leave and go to the hills not even to stop and get your coat? I believe this is a specific reference to Jerusalem in 70 AD which saved the church. Why? because they weren't there. They left based on the lords warning. plus persection that dispersed them. Its easy to say christians are at their best when persecuted (true) but what will you say when you're made to watch a mockery of what you hold dear? The romans dressed christians children and women as fantasy creatures that they abused (raped) in site of everyone then had them torn limb from limb by diverse methods such as by hungry animals, chariots, etc... What will say say then watching your loved ones die humiliated and tortured. It is not a "so what" senario. It wasn't for the Jews and they proved one thing. This kind of thing can happen in an enlightened age. It can happen now. However, it may be us. It is easy to say such things when you are an armchair martyr. But how about when you are a real one?
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    What an excellent perspective!
     
  11. EdSutton

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    I didn't get any memo, saying that God had died, so I will assume He has not done so. :rolleyes:

    Ed

    P.S. Seriously, I would offer that it appears that God has allowed the United States, as a nation, and for His own reasons, to have the one we collectively wanted as our "king" just as He allowed this to Israel during the time of the Judges.

    IMO, the only time one could reasonably make the argument that this did not happen during my own lifetime of more than 60 years occurred in 1948, with the election of President Harry S Truman, over Gov. Thomas E. Dewey.
     
  12. Reformer

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    People are panicking because they bought into the "what God does for me" gospel and now they are seeing the visible Judgement of God on us and they have no idea what it is or how to react to it. It is all our fault, if the WHOLE word of God had been presented to the Church, we would have this and much more coming.
     
  13. 4His_glory

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    Exactly! Certainly God has used the US in great ways. But that does not mean He needs to us it or will continue to do so in the future. Our concern should be to live faithfully for His glory.
     
  14. abcgrad94

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    Yes, God is still alive and well.

    What are people afraid of? I'm surprised it isn't obvious. Some of us see the destruction of our free society bearing down upon us and mourn for our children's sake. Everything our forefathers have fought and died for is now up for "interpretation" by liberals who want to stomp out our freedoms. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a country overrun by godless, vile persons who want to force homosexuality on us. It is heartbreaking to see what was once a "Christian" country so consumed with evil that even people claiming the name of Christ no longer mourn at sin.

    I want to rip my clothes and scream and cry the way the prophets did in the old testament, when they saw the evil and destruction coming. I suppose some would also consider them paranoid and bitter, too.

    Yes, God is still on the throne. But that doesn't mean we should just roll over and play dead when we see our nation going to heck in a handbasket!

    Have we not learned anything from history?
     
  15. Crabtownboy

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    This is what I beleive has been happening the last five years. I see nothing Christian in what has happened the last eight years. I don't want to start an arguement, just state how I feel. I was a Bush supporter in 2000, but he changed all that with policies that I see as not Christian and not in line with American traditional values.

    So you now see how I have felt, not the last 8 years, but the last 5 years.

    I do think your comment on homesexuals is not supportable.
     
  16. 4His_glory

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    Persecution is good if God sends it because all that He sends is good. Not that the evil acts committed by men against the saints is good, but that the purposes in which God is accomplishing through them are.

    So yes we should be happy. I appeal to Peter:

    13 ​​And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good? 14 ​​But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. ​​“And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.” 15 But ​sanctify ​5the Lord God in your hearts, and always ​v​be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the ​​hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 ​having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

    BTW the idea of blessedness, if I am not mistaken is happiness. Their is joy in suffering for Christ.

    Perhaps you have a point there, however, the USA was, is, or will be Israel.
     
  17. abcgrad94

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    It's been coming on us slowly, bit by bit. Now it's more noticeable and I believe it will hit like a storm soon.

    If you do not believe me about the homosexuals, take a look at Martin's thread in the new's forum "the wicked show their true colors." Then match what you see with Obama's own words about homosexuality and abortion. Remember, when he get's into office, both the House and Congress have a liberal majority and he is in agreement with the liberals. The stage is set for major damage.
     
  18. Crabtownboy

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    Can you give me a link to read Obama's words? Not a sensationalist web site, but a rational one that is not trying to score points over those they feel are on the other side.
     
  19. abcgrad94

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    I wish I could, Crabby, but I don't know how to post links. There have been several on the political threads, though. I don't know if they are from "sensationalist" web sites. Maybe someone with more computer know how can help out here?

    I do know that he believes abortion and homosexuality are ok, and he is currently seeking advice from a [email protected] clergyman.
     
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Fine, but how do you answer all of the New Testament passages about joy and blessedness in persecution?
     

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