Did God Know? Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 12strings, Jan 9, 2013.

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Before God created the world and all life, Did God know that both Satan and Adam (and

  1. Yes, God knew they would sin and created them anyway.

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  2. No, God did not know if they would sin when he created them.

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  1. 12strings

    12strings
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    Easy Poll: Simple Yes or No answer. (somewhat related to a previous thread):

    Before God created the world and all life, Did God know that both Satan and Adam (and by derivation, all of us) would sin? (this is what the complete poll title should be)

    That's the Poll question...a Simple Yes or No. No 3rd options this time.
     
    #1 12strings, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2013
  2. DHK

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    Yes, of course. He is omniscient. He knows all things: past, present and future. His omniscience does not negate the free will that he has given to mankind which he has made in his image and likeness.
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    What do you mean by know? (Epistemically speaking)
     
  4. 12strings

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    I mean that God knew with certainty that if he created the world in the way he was planning to create it, that some of the angels would fall, and that all humanity would fall, beginning with Adam.

    A human example would be that if I that if I cut my finger off with my table saw, I KNOW it will bleed. Now, of course, my knowledge of that is not perfect (It might instantly cauterize if the blade was already super-heated from some engine problem...I might accidentally have a bracelet on too tight that has cut off all blood flow from my hand...I may have some odd medical condition in which there are is no blood flowing in that finger...)

    But God's knowledge is not so limited...he knows the outcome with certainty, such that he did not create the world WONDERING whether we would sin, neither pretty sure we would, but hoping we wouldn't...NOR pretty sure we wouldn't but with a chance that we would.

    I suppose you would categorize that as a "knowledge THAT" (A knowledge of a fact that is true), as opposed to a knowledge HOW (how to do something), or a relational knowledge (I know my son)." (not saying God doesn't have those also).
     
  5. mont974x4

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    Looking at Eph 1 and 1 Peter 1 it is clear to me that God knew, and chose, who would be His before the foundation of the world. That implies that before the foundation of the world He also knew those who would not be His. This implies a need to redeem His people was fully known by God prior to creation.

    So, I have to answer the poll with a yes.
     
  6. 12strings

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    Upon Further consideration, I suppose God could have arrived at the same conclusion using perfect relational knowledge as well, relational knowledge of beings that did not yet exist (perhaps you can call it foreknowledge):

    I know that if I give my 2 year old son pizza and broccoli for dinner, I KNOW him well enough to KNOW that he will eat the pizza and not even try the broccoli...but my knowledge of my son is limited, and I could be mistaken, God's knowledge of us is not limited, and he cannot be mistaken.
     
  7. percho

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    YES

    But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19,20

    That foreordaination took place before Adam was created for this purpose.

    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14
     
  8. percho

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    Adam brought death to all men.

    Was there death before Adam was created? Was the Lamb slain before the concept of slain existed?
     

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