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Did God send Jesus into the desert to have him tested by Satan?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Sep 6, 2006.

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  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Did God send Jesus into the desert and then ordered Satan to test him?
    Some "christians" believe this, that Satan is only a servant of God whom God uses to test us humans and if we fail the tests then God's wrath is upon us.
    I think that this is totally sick and it simply cannot be. This would be totally twisted and this would mean that all the evil things which Satan does are basically ordered by God and this would mean that God uses Satan to carry out the "dirty works". This is totally twisted.
    What would you reply to somebody who says something like this?
    The problem is that Job for example looks like God uses Satan to test Job. I guess that this notion that God uses Satan comes from such passages such as Job. :confused:
    For example who killed the firstborns in Egypt? Was this Satan?
    What I don't understand: Why does Satan always do what God expects him to do? For example in the bible Paul says somewhere that if christians are rebellious they shall be handed over to Satan, why? Because Satan shall somehow punish them and then they shall come back to God. But why does Satan do this when he knows that God expects him to do just this? Wouldn't it be much smarter of Satan to simply do exactly the opposite of which God expects him to do? For example why did the satanic angel harass Paul? Why didn't he leave him alone because God allowed Paul to be harassed? This means that God wanted Paul to be harassed, but why did the angel do it?
     
    #1 xdisciplex, Sep 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2006
  2. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind New Member

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    First you need to quote some sources that claim this doctrine.

    I don't believe it.

    But on the other hand, God has done some twisted stuff with us.

    He made us lustful in nature and then tells us we can't act on that lust.

    God tells us to not to kill in Exodus and Duetronomy but he kills countless women and children.

    God gave us all these traits and characteristics but tells us we act on them.
     
    #2 Inquiring Mind, Sep 6, 2006
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    double post
     
    #3 xdisciplex, Sep 6, 2006
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Disciple be careful who you believe even on this board. Just because they have certain emblems next to their name doesnt make what they say trust worthy.

    God causes no one to lust. As creator God can give life and take it and it is absolutely right just and fair because he is God.

    Scripture doesnt say that God sent Satan to the wilderness but is does say that he sent Christ. God has and does turn people over to their sin.

    This subject cannot be fully explained on this board. You need to do a study on this for yourself. I would be fearful to accuse God of being twisted or unjust.
     
    #4 Revmitchell, Sep 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2006
  5. Not_hard_to_find

    Not_hard_to_find Member
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    XD -- please take prayerful care of how you question God's will. Matthew 18:6 holds a valid promise repeated in Mark 9:42. See also Matthew 25:35-46.

    As many have suggested, seek out a pastor who will be of much more help in your understanding than any of us on the board. Please seek His will in your life.
     
    #5 Not_hard_to_find, Sep 6, 2006
  6. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Man, I do not accuse God of being twisted. I said if it was this way then it would be twisted but I don't think that it is this way but on the other hand there are also so many things I don't understand like why did God allow Satan to test Job? God already had his opinion about Job before the whole thing. Then why did he allow Satan to test Job? To prove to Satan that he (God) was right? I don't understand this.

    And what I also don't understand is wether God established ALL rulers on earth. Does this mean that if somebody like Hitler comes to power then this is God's will and the people simply have to accept it and they are not allowed to do anything against it? :confused:

    And since the bible says Satan is the accuser, does this mean that without Satan there is no accusation and without accusation there is no punishment? Does this mean that God only punishes sin because Satan accuses us? Or does God punish sin because it goes against him?

    This is all so confusing. :(

    And I also heard that this verse here has a different meaning in the original:

    Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

    It's not "Satan hath desired" but "Satan has the order to sift you".
    Is this true that in the original this verse has a different meaning?

    But this wouldn't make any sense, why should God play cat and mouse? Why should he on the one hand order Satan what to do and on the other hand do a if Satan is his enemy?
    But on the other hand I don't know why Jesus had to be tempted in the desert, what was this good for? Did God want to see wether Jesus would make it? :confused:
     
    #6 xdisciplex, Sep 6, 2006
  7. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Sure, but why did he send Jesus there? He knew that Satan would tempt him. :confused:
     
    #7 xdisciplex, Sep 6, 2006
  8. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando New Member

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    Well.. I think that something has to do with the #40.

    The Importance of 40

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Genesis 7:4 Noah and his family survive the flood after 40 days of rain.
    Genesis 18:29 Abraham asked God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if only 40 righteous persons could be found.
    Genesis 50:30 Egyptians took 40 days to embalm Jacob, Joseph's father.
    Numbers 13:25 Spies sent into Canaan stayed 40 days.
    Numbers 14:34 God's requirement that Israelites wander in the desert 40 years - one year for each day spies spent in Canaan.
    1 Samuel 17:16 Goliath taunted the Israelites for 40 days.
    1 Kings 19:8 Took Elijah 40 days to reach Mt. Horeb for refuge.
    Ezekiel 4:6 40 days Ezekiel was to lie on his right side to bear the sin of Judah.
    Jonah 3:4 40 days for Jonah to change Ninevah.
    Matthew 4:2 In spiritual preparation for His ministry, Jesus fasted 40 days in the wilderness.
    Acts 1:3 Following the resurrection, Jesus appeared to His disciples over a period of 40 days.
    Exodus 24 Moses descended Mt. Sinai after 40 days.
     
    #8 TaliOrlando, Sep 6, 2006
  9. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    @ tali

    Yes, maybe. But I have come across something even more disturbing. :(

    I'm pretty confused by someone on a forum who claims that Satan isn't evil and that he's only a servant who does what God tells him to.
    He goes even further and claims God and Satan are one!
    He claims that according to the strongs dictionary Satan from revelation is the same as the one who killed the firstborn in hebrew 11:28. Is this true? I cannot find anything in the strongs dictionary in Hebrew 11:28 which points towards Satan.
    And he said that the one from hebrew 11:28 is the same as the one in Exodus 12:23.
    And then he also quoted Exodus 12:12 where God says that HE will smite the firstborn!
    This really looks as if the destroyer and God are the same. I don't know how to explain this. :(


    Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

    Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

    Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

    Exo 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

    God = the destroyer? :eek:
     
    #9 xdisciplex, Sep 6, 2006
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Exactly.:thumbs:
     
    #10 Revmitchell, Sep 6, 2006
  11. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind New Member

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    It's a matter of who your God is.

    For some it is the loving God of the Gospels and Epistles
    For some it is the angry, wrathful, killing God of the OT and Revelations.

    For some it the loving Jesus that says suffer not the children.

    For some is the baby killing God of the Old Testament.

    And for some it is a mixture of the two.

    It's your choice of how to view God.

    Is any one view wrong or right?
     
    #11 Inquiring Mind, Sep 7, 2006
  12. Link

    Link New Member

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    Matthew 4:1
    Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    James tells us that God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man. But we see in Matthew that the Spirit led Jesus to the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil. God did not tempt Him, but the Devil did. The Spirit led Him there, Matthew writes, to be tempted of the Devil.

    I have a question for you. Did God let Jesus be tempted so that Jesus would fall into temptation, or so that He would stand? So that He would stand, right? Has the thought occured to you that by enduring temptation and not falling, that Christ gained something.

    That being said, we are not to seek to be tempted. we are to pray 'lead us not into temptation.' But when we are tempted, we are to stand int he strength that God gives us.

    If God is sovereign, I don't see how you can get around the idea of God using Satan to accomplish His purposes, particularly considering some of the passages in the OT about Satan.
     
    #12 Link, Sep 10, 2006
  13. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    But I still don't know who the destroyer is. The bible mentions him a few times.

    1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

    This means it's not God himself. If this is always the same angel then this means that this angel also killed the egyptians. But somehow I think that the thought that God sends out an angel to kill and destroy is scary, isn't it? I mean usually one would think that Satan is the only one out there who destroys. :confused:
     
    #13 xdisciplex, Sep 12, 2006
  14. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    xdisciplex Christ was fully human as much as He was fully God, and it was the fully human part of Christ that was being tested by Satan. And that must happen just as Satan tests all believers as well. It had to do with Christ being qualified to rule and reign. He passed to the glory of God!!!

    We as Christians are tested as well and some will pass and some will not.
     
    #14 J. Jump, Sep 12, 2006
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Luke 4:1-2 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
    2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

    Let's not blame God for anything.
     
    #15 DHK, Sep 12, 2006
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    God does use angels to kill. Another verse says it is to execute God's judgment. Yes, God took lives in the OT as a way to execute judgment God gives life and he has the right to take it.

    Look in Revelation. God also uses angels to bring judgment there. These angels are sent by God:
     
    #16 Marcia, Sep 12, 2006
  17. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    I want to be very serious with you friend. You should get with your Bible and humble yourself before the Lord and start talking with Him. Your post shows someone that doesn't have a clue as to who God is. Put down all the commentaries and extra curricular writtings of fools and concentrate on The WORD. Meet Him who made you and urgently desires to fellowship with you.
     
    #17 hillclimber1, Sep 13, 2006
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The Jews taught the heresy that Satan is simply following God's orders - and obviously if that is the case they rightly conclude that he is a loyal faithful servant of God - a good Angel.

    However having clearly condemned that error - I also say that this much is true....

    Matt 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

    God's purpose in leading Christ there was not only the intense time of prayer and fasting to prepare for ministry and direct conflict with Satan - but also to then have the conflict between Satan and Christ witnessed by the Universe - but not by any human eye.

    IN a free will system like the one God has designed -- it is the Job 1 and 2 "scenarios" that SHOW the force of truth with compelling argument and imperical data. He does not simply pith the brain.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #18 BobRyan, Sep 13, 2006
  19. hawg_427

    hawg_427 Member

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    Tempted

    Matt.4:1-11 The Holy Spirit led Christ into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.
    We just read this in our Bible study book " Spiritual Warefare" by John Franklin
     
    #19 hawg_427, Sep 13, 2006
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