Did I sin or walk in holiness regarding alcohol

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Big family event and my wife could not make it out this time. My family knows my position on alcohol and that being drunk is sin. I said I would not buy nor support any public drinking of alcohol so I would not be a stumbling block nor lead people to temptation. However I could drink a beverage in private just as long as I did not sin and get drunk.

    There are people in my family that are charismatic and hold a social evangelism view that to best relate to the world is to build friendships and alcohol is one way. There are drinks at the party that would get anyone drunk easily such as wines and coors. However a family member bought me some mikes lemonade and I agreed to drink it as long as I also drank water and ate food for I would not get drunk. A good position? I will walk in holiness but I won't be a stumbling block.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    I believe in developing relationship but not by sinning. The world does not need Christiant to be like the world. The world need Christians to be like Christ. We develope relationsips through loving them. Not by acting like them.
     
  3. Rippon

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    There isn't anything adversarial between walking in holiness and not being a stumbling block. A more suitable conjunction would be so.
     
  4. evangelist6589

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    Exactly. Well I had some conversations but the longest with a family member whom is Weslyian. But I am not the best at this type of thing as I don't seem to have much in common with them as far as interests etc.. I love animals, nature, Star Trek and Twilight Zone, black and white movies, exercising, etc.. However I also like technology and fishing so that has helped with some.

    I am gonna get up and try and chat with some people.
     
  5. annsni

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    So you wouldn't drink a beer or wine because it could lead to drunkeness but you would drink another alcoholic drink.... which could lead to drunkeness. What was your thinking on that? If you are against drinking in front of others, don't drink. If you think drinking a Mike's is OK, then you have no right to say anything to anyone else having a glass of wine. Period.
     
  6. evangelist6589

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    Actually the wines were 13% alcoholic and coors is 13% or higher. Mikes is 5%. But anyways I had a drink and then put it away as I felt bad and ashamed as I should only drink at home.
     
  7. SolaSaint

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    DITTO:thumbs:
     
  8. evangelist6589

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    Did you read my follow up? I agree and why I stopped and felt guilty.
     
  9. Jerome

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    Huh? Since when is Coors 13%+ abv?
     
  10. annsni

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    Sorry. Coors is 5%. Your Mike's is the equivalent of the same quantity of Coors. General rule is that 1 oz. of hard liquor is the equivalent of 4 oz. of wine which is equivalent to 12 oz. beer. Your Mike's falls into the same category as beer. So while a glass of wine has more alcohol, you drink less so it is the same amount of alcohol getting into your body. I could drink one glass of a nice white wine and have less alcohol effect than two of your Mike's.
     
  11. JamesL

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    Evan
    I think your struggle is coming from a rules-based (Law) approach to drinking instead of a freedom (Spirit) approach.

    Also a possible misunderstanding of what a stumbling block is. A stumbling block is figurative of placing a tripping device in front of a blind person to keep them from finding their way (Leviticus 19:14).

    When used to speak about sin, it is specifically idolatry (Ezek 14:3-7) which kept people from finding their way to God

    When used in relation to eating and drinking, it is specifically flaunting your liberty in such a manner that weaker believers are offended and stay entrenched in a restrictive mindset (or judgment toward you). In this way, you are keeping believers from finding their own liberty in Christ.


    What is the purpose of not being given to drunkenness? Is it a rule, or a law? Not at all. It is an admonition to have our thinking led by the Holy Spirit rather than the inebriating effect of alcohol.

    Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit...(Ephesians 5:15-18)

    And Galatians 5:18 says that if we are led by the Spirit we are not under Law.

    The only way that your drinking on front of others can be a stumbling block is if they think it is wrong for anyone to have a drink. When you flaunt your liberty to drink they become self-righteous and judgmental toward you. They stumble into hypocrisy because of the stumbling block you created by flaunting your liberty.

    It sounds like these people have no problem with drinking, so your drinking in front of them isn't going to put a stumbling block in front of them to turn them to self-righteous hypocrisy.

    By your thinking, you might have actually become the stumbling block you're trying not to be. You seem to have given the impression that you believe drinking is a sin, and that you don't want to entice them to sin.

    I would imagine that you have given them a works-based understanding of drinking and not drinking. Then, when you "caved" and had a Mike's in front of them, you might very well have looked like the hypocrite. That can cause unbelievers to stumble, because they perceive hypocrisy in you and vow to never want to serve the god of your hypocrisy.

    And what was your motivation to have that Mike's? Were you being led by peer pressure, or were you led by a need for refreshment?


    I hope I'm not confusing you, or accusing you. Just trying to offer some food for thought


    I also don't typically drink in front of others, but not because of a restriction. I simply don't drink much alcohol. Since my son was born 8 years ago, I think I've had 2 glasses of wine (on a date), 2 wine coolers (after working on my sister's house for 14 hours), and about 4 beers.

    The last time I had a beer was 3 weeks ago when I played golf with my brother and brother-in-law. They bought a 6-pack to take in the golf cart, and I figured to drink water along the way

    But when it got hot out, and all the water coolers along the way had been empty, and the drink cart was nowhere to be found, I asked if I could have a beer. I wasn't led by their drinking, or a desire to get a buzz, or anything like that. I gave no thought to it at all, other than the fact that I was thirsty. And the beer was the only thing readily available, so I drank one.

    And had I been asked why I was drinking, I would have simply explained that there is nothing wrong with drinking a beer, or even a few. Being led by the Spirit - not a desire for drunkenness or a law-based mindset of restriction.
     
  12. Rolfe

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    Coors products (excluding nonalcoholic) range from 2.8%-7.3%.

    http://www.alcoholcontents.com/beer/
     
  13. Aaron

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    The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness and peace in the Holy Ghost. If the Gospel is your focus, nothing compels one to drink. No one will be won by another's imbibing.

    There is great advantaged in avoiding the controversy, though, and in abstaining out of love for the weaker brothers.
     
  14. evangelist6589

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  15. evangelist6589

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    Well that would be with those that are first brothers and at the party only two (both charismatic) and one had a very loose view on alcohol taught at his church that to best relate to the world one needs to drink and build bridges. This is a common view in the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Yet the other charismatic personally did not drink but was not offended nor tempted to drink so in this case perhaps drinking in front of unbelievers was okay but in a way I felt bad because I only wanted to drink in private.

    I felt a little buzz which went away after I ate food and drank water but my rational was fine. I made it clear to some unbelievers that I did not agree with IFB nor teetotalist on their view on alcohol. Some unbelievers think all Christians are against alcohol probably because many equate Catholics with Christians and I even said to one that Catholics are bad news.
     
    #15 evangelist6589, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014
  16. Aaron

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    Oh, and when Paul said he would eat no meat while the earth stood if it caused his brother to offend, he didn't mean he had an Easter ham hidden away in private that he ate while alone.

    You know I love that organic cooking
    I always ask for more
    And they call me Mr Natural
    On down to the health food store
    I only eat good sea salt
    White sugar don't touch my lips
    And my friends is always begging me
    To take them on macrobiotic trips
    Yes, they are

    Oh, but at night I take out my strong box
    That I keep under lock and key
    And I take it off to my closet
    Where nobody else can see
    I open that door so slowly
    Take a peek up north and south
    Then I pull out a Hostess Twinkie
    And I pop it in my mouth

    Yeah, in the daytime I'm Mr Natural
    Just as healthy as I can be
    But at night I'm a junk food junkie
    Good lord have pity on me​
     
  17. evangelist6589

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    This may be possible James. I did go to Bob Jones but have rejected their view on alcohol since then and believe in drinking that does not lead to sin. I am led by the spirit and not by legalistic traditions.

    Many there would condemn you James for wanting to justify your sin and so you may have to work as a independent evangelist like me because you will be rejected for ministry due to your convictions on alcohol. But it's okay James Ray Comfort is far looser on his view on alcohol so you can work as a Way of the Master evangelist.

    It's okay you attend a non BJU church probably far looser on their view on alcohol :)
     
  18. evangelist6589

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    How far can this be taken? What if I am OFFENDED with your CEV and The Message bible translations? Does this mean you need to toss all copies to not offend me?
     
  19. salzer mtn

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    The family member that brought you the drink was testing you to see if you would forget yourself in a worldly setting and drink till you became buzzed or drunk. Also you broke your own word to them by drinking in public instead of private.
     
  20. evangelist6589

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    No they actually wanted me to enjoy myself. But I did not get drunk. The only thing I got drunk on was candy.

    But perhaps to avoid this whole controversy it would be best next time to only drink in private. Some unbelievers think Christians never drink and I have to explain to them what the Bible says and gather arguments.

    So my conclusion. I did not sin, but perhaps could avoid a temptation to sin or the appearance of evil in front of unbelievers and other believers that were charismatic.
     
    #20 evangelist6589, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2014

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