Did Jesus "Change?"

Unitarianism actually reared its ugly head the same time as the Reformation in a little country...the name won't come to me just now...,but it almost sidelined the Reformation. You may see elements of it in all countries where Christianity spread.

Not all the Pilgrims that came to "America" were Christian and not all the Christians were of sound theology.

Cheers,

Jim

 

It was "New England Theology." Charles Finney was one of the most popular of its proponents, especially when he was the president of Oberlin College.

 

I would think to even consider such a concept would be blasphemous.
But it sounds like something close to what Benny Hinn would say.

Christ never ceased from being deity. He became (humbled himself) in the form of a man, even humbled himself to the obediece of death on the cross. He was God. He didn't have to do this. He could have called 12 legions of angels, the Scripures say. But out of his great love, He died for you; for me; for us all.

Sounds like Mormonism to me. We will never be God or gods. If you use God singular then it sounds like Hinduism when we will all be absorbed into the one Great Brahma.
There is only one God, entirely set apart from his creation (us) and he is a triune God--three persons in one God, as eloquently described in previous posts by some of the Confessions of Faith.

Who of us is sinless? Who of us can claim to be "like Christ"? That is our goal. We ought to be Christ-like. "And he like us." Hardly! He was set apart from us. We are sinners. He is not. He was the just who died for the unjust.
"Christ will be like God"
Then what was he before?
He always was God and always will be God. He never ceased from being God.

It hurts it.

 

No man will ever be equal with Christ.

Even though Christ humbled Him Self and became a man temporarily in order to be the perfect man to be put to death unjustly for the sins of the whole world, He was still God. The whole process wasn't something He had to do but did because He chose to do it. His choice was open to Him at all times because even though He became a man He was still God and He never stopped being God even for a second.

Christ became a man this is true but, He was a perfect man. That means there was no other like Him. He was perfect because He wasn't just a man but a God-man. The miracles Jesus performed no mere man could have ever done
You seem to be leading up to His transfiguration as a point in time when He became a God-man. Though He was God the moment He was conceived.

Believers already have the Spirit of God with in.

Being born of God means we do not sin in the spirit but, sin still dwells in our flesh. When we do the things we wish we didn't it is no longer us that's doing it but the sin in our flesh.

Christ living on the earth 2000 years ago was tempted as much as any man maybe even more. There was no "as if" in His life. He was the second Adam and like Adam He had as much choice to rebel as Adam ever had. He Didn't sin. He over came the temptation just as every man should over come his own temptations but, do not.

Christ is at the right hand of the Father. It's His Holy Spirit that dwells within man. Yet He is still all just one God.... What a mystery eh???
MB

 

Skypair

You are totally confused about the nature of God. You are totally confused about the doctrine of the Trinity. You are totally confused about what occurred in the Incarnation. You are totally confused about the person and nature of the incarnate Son. You also appear to be totally confused about the nature of the redeemed.

Your belief system regarding God and religion seems to be a mix between pantheism [Hinduism] and Mormonism, with a measure of Word of Faith heresy thrown in for good measure. That being said after reading a definition of Oneness doctrine [presented below] that heresy appears to fit your posts closer than anything else.

Oneness Heresy

Oneness theology denies the Trinity and teaches that God is a single person who was "manifested as Father in creation and as the Father of the Son, in the Son for our redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in our regeneration."* Another way of looking at it is that God revealed himself as Father in the Old Testament, as the Son in Jesus during Christ’s ministry on earth, and now as the Holy Spirit after Christ’s ascension.

I would suggest that you purge your mind of all this heresy and then start reading the Bible beginning with Genesis and the Gospel of John as many new converts are advised.

 

To my understanding, it is just as much a heresy to deny the humanity of Christ as it is to deny the Deity.

 

This is whats called Gnosticism which indeed is blasphemy and is a heresy

 

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
"Like" means similar, it doesn't mean an absolute copy. It doesn't mean we will also be gods as He is God.

While I will admit that it's my desire to be like Him I for one haven't arrived there yet. We could say we are like Him in the fact that we breathe or that we both have a human form. Yet "like" is a simile not a duplicate.

Wrong I never nibble at nonsense. Christ didn't need to be redeemed and to make such a claim is heresy plain and simple. Seems you have fallen off the deep end of your own intellectual attitude here. I now believe you're just arguing for the sake of argument. IOW's you have no argument so you've dreamed this one up.

Now you're writting your own gospel.

That's works, not miracles.

Scripture please?

You're talking nonsense. Jesus Christ was never redeemed because he had nothing to be redeemed from. He never once ever commited sin. Not only that He wasn't born in sin. Which is why He is referred to as the second Adam. His maternal Father is the Spirit of God.

What did Christ do that He needed redeeming from?

I'll tell you right up front before you go any futher. Don't waste your breath. You'll never convince me of this heresy.
MB

 

Let's try this again.
When the second person of the trinity (the Word), "made himself lower" or volitionally submitted Himself to the first person of the trinity, it was His choice to do so. He was not forced into it. God cannot be forced to do anything. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are co-equal throughout all eternity. They were when Christ was on earth, and they are now.
Christ said: I am come to do thy will.
I always do the will of my Father.
--He voluntarily, as a man, submitted Himself to the first person of the trinity, while He (the Word) maintained His deity, being the Second person of the trinity--the perfect man; the only God--the God-man.
As a man he submitted himself; as God he was still the Creator. As God there was no change.

"Was he equal with God or equal with man?
--He is God. That is the obvious answer. Man doesn't even begin to compare. Christ is God within a fleshly temple.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was on earth dwelling in an earthly temple. We are not gods. We don't come close to being equal with Christ. In Him did all the fulness of the Godhead dwell.

From the above Scripture Paul never distinguished Him claiming equality with God. He was God in the flesh, Paul said. That is clear enough for me. In his humanity he submitted himself to the Father, but only in his humanity. Yet that was volitional. He was still God. Remember he could have called 12 legions (72,000) angels at anytime to stop it all. He was God (and still is).
He did have "equal prerogatives. Understand John 3:13

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--He speaks of him omniscience to Nicodemus. While on earth he tells him that he is in heaven. His miracles attested of his omnipotence. That is the reason that Nicodemus came to him. "No man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with Him."

Quite frankly, it is my opinion that you are basing your entire theology on a misinterpretation of a very difficult verse (1Cor.15:28). Many scholars have varied and different opinions of the meaning of that verse. Remember the context--he is giving evidences of the resurrection.

Now back to your post. Christ was all God, and the Son at the same time. It could be no other way. He is the Word, the second person of the trinity, and always has been.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
--If it causes less confusion in your mind to refer to the second person as the Word, then so be it. I think it is more accurate a term anyway. Regardless, He is and always has been the second person of triune Godhead.
While Christ was here it was the only way that He could reveal what God was like--the only way!

John 14:9-11 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Only Christ could fully reveal God to the world.

Like him only in some ways. Like him does not mean we will be divine in no sense of the word

No we are not sinless. That is a misinterpretation of that verse. 1John 1:8,10 says that when you claim sinlessness you do not know the truth, you are a liar, and the word is not in you. That is quite a condemnation.
The "perfect" (OE for "complete) man does not speak of sinlessness. It speaks of maturity, or completion in the sense of showing the fruit of the Spirit in one's life.
There are none of us who continue from day to day without sin. We fail. We sin. And 1John 1:9 commands us to confess and ask forgiveness. 1John 2:1 tells us that we WILL sin.

Christ didn't have to have this mix, you say.
No, and Christ didn't have to die for our sins either. He is God. He is our Creator. He is the second person of the triune Godhead. He holds all power in His hand. He spoke all things into existence.
Christ did not have "perogatives." He is God. He has "need of nothing" the Bible states. We are the creatures; He is the Creator. It will always remain that way. When He was on this earth his body was like ours--made of flesh, bones, blood, water, atoms, molecules, matter, etc. He was human--totally human. Yet, at the same time He was totally God. He never left His deity behind, not for one nanosecond.
The correct term is that he had no "sin nature."

 

Got to run to church, but what I stated is Chalcedon compliant, there is another tread on this that I don't have time to dig up right now. Quickly, from my study notes:

"The Chalcedon Council concluded that Christ is One Person in two natures; the difference of the Natures being in no way abolished because of the union, but rather the perfection of each being preserved, and both concurring into one Person and one Hypostasis.
Thus the doctrine of one Person in two Natures became the middle way along which the Church was in future to walk."

 

Please notice the very strong similarities between skypair's doctrine and the Oneness Doctrine which is heretical. Also if the Second Person and the Third Person of the Triune Godhead did not exist at one time and will cease to exist at some time in the future, as skypair insists, then they are not God which is directly contrary to Christian Doctrine and is a gross heresy

 

Some of [b[]skypair's[/b] trash talk sounds a little like the Word of Faith Heresy.

 

Oh No you don't mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Benny Hinn?
I thought it resembled the late Joseph Smith's views
MB

 

Some of that also!