Did Jesus do away with the Sabbath?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 10, 2006.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    (material taken from another source without giving credit will be deleted)
    DHK

    [ May 11, 2006, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    WHAT IS LOVE? are we now free to define that for ourselves? NO! Many have the mistaken idea that in New Testament times, under the new covenant, we must only have "love" and that the Ten Commandments are merely a "dead letter" that we need no longer concern ourselves with. However, the principles of love are defined within God's Ten Commandment Law. Let's listen to the Jesus...

    "Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked Jesus a question, saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:36-40 The reason that Jesus said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" is because the first 4 commandments define love to God (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, etc.) and the last 6 define love to thy neighbor (Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal). This same idea is repeated by the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans:

    "...he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended (summarized) in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. " Romans 13:8,9: So you see then that love to God and neighbor is merely a SUMMARY of or is briefly comprehended in the Ten Commandment Law. And not only that but both Jesus and Paul were merely reiterating what had already been declared in old Testament times! Watch this:

    "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4,5.

    "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18.

    Sound familiar? Jesus was merely quoting directly out of the old testament when He said Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    God's claims have always been the same. Jesus did not really give us a "new" commandment to keep, He was bringing to light the foundation principles of love which have always underlined the ten commandments of old. This is why John said the following words:

    "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning.
    Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
    .
    I John 2:3-8.

    Did you notice that last part?

    It SEEMED like a new commandment to God's people when Jesus gave it.. love God and love your neighbor... because they had been in DARKNESS for so long, keeping the Law of God but leaving out the Love that was ALWAYS supposed to be the foundation of the Law.

    and who was that "true light that now shineth"? It was JESUS of course, who had come to "Magnify the Law and make it honorable" and set the Law back into its proper framework... (it was prophesied of Him: "The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable" Isa:42:21)

    The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James
    1:17.


    Claudia
     
  3. J. Jump

    J. Jump
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Claudia the Sabboth is unique in that it was the only commandment that was given as a sign. We have discussed in another thread that signs are only for the Jews.

    There is A LOT we as Christians can learn about the Sabboth and from the Sabboth, but the Sabboth was a sign between Israel and God.

    Christians are neither Jew nor Greek. We are a new nation in Christ. Therefore the signs are not required today.

    The Sabboth always has and still does point to something that is yet future. God worked six days to restore a ruined creation in Genesis 1 and 2 then rested on the seventh day. He is once again at work restoring a ruined creation in man and He will rest again a seventh day (Hebrews - can't remember what chapter right off hand).

    God is working six days (1,000 years as per II Peter 3:8) to restore man to his original purpose and God will rest from His work on the seventh day (1,000-year reign of Christ).

    Israel was forever to keep this in memory to know that God is at work and will one day rest again from His work.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Claudia the Sabbath is unigue in that it is one of the few practices said to apply to "ALL MANKIND" in the New heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66.

    Something else is that it is UNIQUE in that it is one of two institutions given to mankind by our Creator in the Garden of Eden. Mankind takes two God given institutions out of the Garden - the first is Marriage and the 2nd is the holy Seventh-day where on DAY SEVEN God "MADE IT HOLY" Gen 2:3.

    Something else UNIQUE about the Sabbath is that after Christ says that it was MADE FOR MANKIND HE then declares IS LORD OF that day "explicitly" Mark 2:27-28. It is in fact - the Lord's Day!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just though I'd throw this out again. :D

    Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
    Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

    One of the concepts behind Hebrews talking about a SabbathRest 'remaining' (it's still there folks!) for the people of God is to remind of us the need to actually *really* rest once in a while...

    But, as Jesus said above the concept of the sabbath was for our benefit not our bondage...

    And, IMHO, Jesus freed us from a fixed Sabbath...

    I do not however believe that we are freed from the intent of the SabbathRest, though...

    If anything, in these high pressure times of stress and uncertainty we need TWO Sabbaths!

    Which is why I do everything in my power to work ONLY 40 hours and take both Saturday and Sunday off...

    As for the religious implications...

    I am _NOT_ a Sabbath Christian...

    When I became a New creation in Christ Jesus I became a 24/7 365 Christian not merely one on a special day like Christmas and Easter. :D

    If I wait until a special day or a sabbath to do my religious 'priviledges' (some might call them 'duties')... [​IMG]

    How could I, then, Rejoice Evermore or Pray without ceasing?

    SMM
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    One of the concepts behind Hebrews talking about a SabbathRest 'remaining' (it's still there folks!) for the people of God is to remind of us the need to actually *really* rest once in a while...

    But, as Jesus said above the concept of the sabbath was for our benefit not our bondage...

    And, IMHO, Jesus freed us from a fixed Sabbath...
    </font>[/QUOTE]Here is a classic twist of scripture.

    In Mark 2 we have pre-cross statement of Christ condemning the man-made-tradition of the Jews.

    The poster above tries to equate the errors of the Jews with God's WORD as if GOD was also in error and Christ was freeing us from what HE AS GOD gave us NOT just exposing the errors of the Jews!

    What a "twist and wrench" of the text! See what happens when you convince yourself to ignore exegesis entirely?!!

    Secondly in the text above Christ said HE MADE the Sabbath (Gen 2:3) FOR MANKIND.

    This was MADE (Gen 2:3) FOR MANKIND the day AFTER MANKIND was MADE!!

    Thirdly - Christ stated clearly that HE WAS NOT coming to ABOLISH HIS WORD!! "Think NOT that I have come to ABOLISH My Word but rather to perfectly FULFILL".

    Christ "perfectly FULFILLED" the requirement to "LOVE God with all the heart" Deut 6:5.

    Never Does Christ argue "IF I show respect and honor for MY WORD and fulfill its directives YOU should then IGNORE my Word and not follow my example in any way".

    Yet these "Twist and wrench" imagination games are exactly what people are doing today with the scripture - bending it to the usages of man-made-tradition.

    Sometimes you can hardly believe what you read in these posts!

    The wrenched logic that "supposes" to KEEP Sabbath MEANT to STOP PRAYING on all days but one - is surely NOT exegesis of ANY KIND! I can't believe what passes for exegesis or doctrinal review these days!

    And I don't want to leave the impression that I think that SMM made this up. I would not be surprised to find out that such statements as the one offerred above were "taught" in the man-made-traditions handed to SMM over time.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Mark 2:27 “The Sabbath was Made for MANKIND”.

    To what prior point in history is Christ pointing to – when He claims that the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind? At what point in time does your “tradition” allow Christ’s words to have been true?

    What are the possible "alternatives" to simply accepting the Mark 2:27 , Gen 2:3 and Isaiah 66 statements on the scope of Sabbath applying to “All Mankind”?

    (Note: this unqualified reference “The Sabbath was MADE for man and not MAN (made) for the Sabbath” is also found in Heb 9
    “ For it is appointed unto MANkind ONCE to die and then comes the judgment” Heb 9
    “Mankind shall not live by bread alone” Matt 4:4

    Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
    Genesis 6:6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.


    Would you allow Christ’s Words to be true in that historic point in time when God "Made” both the Sabbath and mankind? Was this when “ the Sabbath was Made for Mankind"? in Gen 2:3 God not only "rested on the 7-day of the week” He also blessed it and made it holy “sanctified it”. According to Exodus 20:8-11 this historic fact established the day as holy and binding. But was it binding for “mankind” as Christ said? OR was it “Made for mankind” at some later point? Since both Gen 2:3 and Exodus 20:8-11 agree to this 7 day creation week “event” As the TIME when it was MADE (in fact when BOTH mankind AND the Sabbath were MADE) this is the only time prior to Christ that the reader of Mark 2 would have know to be the time of the “making” of the 7th day of creation week and of the “making” of mankind.

    When “else” would you apply Mark 2:27 prior to the days of Chist?


    No Alternative

    #1. Would it be to argue that when God "Made the Sabbath for mankind" in Gen 2:3 He "kept it a secret FROM mankind though made FOR mankind”??? Did mankind not know about a 7 day week? Did Creation week “not exist”?? Would Christ the Creator have kept His own 7-day week and the 7th-day weekly Holy day a secret from all mankind."? Was this supposed time of keeping the memorial of creation a secret from mankind – the time when “Sabbath was made for mankind” but not the time when God expected “All mankind to come before Him to worship”?

    #2. Is it in the OT days after the fall of Adam - when some claim that "God only gave the Sabbath to the Jews and NOT all mankind"?

    #3. Is it post Cross - when some say that it actually displeases God if we obey Him and honor His 7th-day memorial of the creation of mankind – since in fact – He is not even asking us to honor His own memorial of Creation that He blessed and Sanctified in Gen 2:3 making it “For mankind”.

    #3. Or is it sometime after the 2nd coming - when Isaiah 66 described the New Earth and "All mankind" coming before God to worship? Is it some post-2nd-coming “New Earth” as God describes in Rev 21?

    #4. Or will the claim be that the People of God were kept so far in the dark in all of these areas - that they had no hope of having any understanding of the "New Heavens and New Earth" or when it would be and so any application of anything in that mythical - unknown time can not be counted on - even when the message comes from God Himself? Since (after all) the Jews were confused.

    Basically there is no compelling alternative to suggest for Isaiah 66 let alone make a solid case for. So then we accept the Isaiah 66 reference to the New Earth as fully consistent with the Rev 21 reference and we also accept the “All mankind” – scope – as real, authoritative, divinely inspired and true – even though it is spoken in Isaiah to a rebellious Israel.

    But there “are” those who admit to the obvious facts of Mark 2:27 even though it conflicts with their preference away from the seventh-day Sabbath.

    Anthropos as “mankind” in Mark 2 and also here –


    The unqualified reference to Man is “Mankind” as in “The Sabbath was MADE for man and not MAN (made) for the Sabbath” is also found in Heb 9

    In NO case (even in HEBREWS) can this term be “downsized” to mean “It is appointed unto Jews Only – once to die and then comes the Judgment”

    Then we see “mankind” used as all inclusive to mean “any member of mankind” indicating “no exceptions”
    =======================================

    Here we see anthropos as "the man" not as "mankind"

    1 Timothy 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


    Here we have other examples where the article inserted makes the reference specific to an individual
    But in Mark 2 it is without the generic form "The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath".

    Had the text said "The Sabbath was made for THE man and not THE man for the Sabbath" it would reference a specific man - an individual. It does not have any such limit in the text.


    Here we have examples where the lack of the article as in the case of Mark 2 makes the reference global "All mankind".

    This next reference is interesting in that it admits to the “making of both” the Sabbath and Mankind at Creation week and shows the true binding nature of the Sabbath – AND it admits to its own need to switch the Sabbath from what Christ the Creator gave in Gen 2:3 – to man’s traditions regarding “weekday-one”


    28 ""So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.''
     
  8. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    BR... You've never heard of hyperbole? Sheeeesh!

    And, as regards to my being 'taught', I read that as having been Brainwashed by a denom...

    I have two things to say to you...

    At least my Brain was washed! [​IMG] :eek:

    Second, Just what man-made traditions are you talking about? Hyper Calvinist? Hyper-Armenian?

    Just what preconcieved filters are you reading my posts through?

    Just because I've been taught by a different denom doesn't make yours irrefiutably correct in your interpretation...

    You've been indoctrinated, too!

    Whether you will admit it or not...

    As for my formal doctrinal training it's about 50% Baptist 40% Assemblies of God and 10% a mixture of various Non-Denominational Groups the majority of which include Calvary Chapel...

    Do you dare admit what your theological mixture *really* is?

    SMM
     
  9. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    We need to look at this in context, what Jesus said before saying that "the Sabbath was made for man and not made for the Sabbath"....

    The disciples were walking with Jesus through the field and rubbing the grain, which was considered work by the rabbis. They accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath. But Jesus and the disciples were doing work for God on the Sabbath. We can know this by the way that Jesus answers.

    Jesus replies: "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.


    If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath.

    The priests in the temple actually performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon the other days of the week.


    The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was being done in the service of God.

    Their labor was in harmony with the Sabbath because it has to do with the redemption of man.


    And everything that Jesus and His discples were doing on the Sabbath had to do with the redemption of man as well, such as healing diseases.

    The service of God comes first of all. The entire object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law.

    Thus Jesus said, "the Sabbath was made for man and not made for the Sabbath"....


    Its a really simple concept, actually, and not mysterious at all. And to somehow twist this around to make it seem like we dont have to keep the Sabbath now is not in keeping at all with what the Saviour had said.

    Claudia
     
  10. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    i'll admit - im mennonite by day - baptist by night

    hehehe.
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Question: Did jesus do away with the Sabbath?

    But, question, positively: Did Jesus institute the Sabbath?
     
  12. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    well he didn't break the sabbath law did he?
     
  13. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    I meant to say "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath" in my post above. Sorry about that, this laptop computer sometimes inserts letters in the middle of a sentence and other weird things like that.


    And I might add, that is why Jesus healed on the Sabbath. Because the entire object of the Sabbath was the redemption of mankind. We keep the Sabbath to remember that God is our Creator and that He sanctifies us and creates a new heart within us and renews a right spirit in us. The Sabbath is FOR US. ... a tool to aid in our redemption, helping us to keep in mind always that God is our Creator, helper and sanctifier.

    To not heal someone because it is Sabbath is to entirely miss the purpose of the Sabbath. Also to not stop to eat lunch when you are out and about doing work for the redemption of man on the Sabbath is to entirely miss the meaning and purpose of the Sabbath.

    That was what Jesus meant when He said "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath".

    Claudia

    [ May 11, 2006, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Quoting SMM (SpiritualMadMan),
    "Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
    Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.""

    'Man' here applies to and refers to BOTH 'man' in general, and - firstly - to THIS 'Man', Jesus the Christ of God. God 'created'/'made'/'instituted' HIS, Sabbath Day, FOR, Jesus Christ. Therefore the Sabbath received its purpose and fulfilment of purpose, in Christ. That is the Christian reason for believing and enjoying God's sabbath Day. Hb4:8-10 tells us that in simplist of language: "SINCE JESUS had given them rest ... "SINCE HE that is entered into His rest ... THEREFORE (4:9) remains valid for the People of God (Christians) a keeping of the Sabbath Day".
    Col2:10-17 thells precisely the same story: By the resurrection of Christ from the dead He "vanquished principalities and powers (of evil and sin), triumphing over them in it (His resurrection, vs.12): THEREFORE then, let no one (of or in the world) judge you feasting your Sabbaths ....".
     
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Did I insinuate He did? - your post came just after mine.
     
  16. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    People may ask, Doesn't Colossians 2:14-17 do away with the seventh-day Sabbath?


    NO. This is speaking only to the sabbaths which were "a shadow of things to come" and not to the seventh day Sabbath. There were seven yearly holy days, or holidays, in Israel which were also known as "sabbaths".

    These were in addition to or "beside the sabbaths of the Lord",(see Leviticus 23:38), or the seventh-day Sabbath. These all pointed to, or foreshadowed, the cross and ended at the cross. God's seventh-day Sabbath was made BEFORE sin entered, and could foreshadow nothing about deliverance from sin. Colossians chapter 2 differentiates and specifically mentions the sabbaths that were "a shadow." These seven yearly sabbaths which were done away with are listed in Leviticus chapter 23.


    According to Romans 14:5, is the day we keep a matter of personal opinion?

    NO. That whole chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4, 10, 13). The issue is not over the seventh-day Sabbath, which was a part of the 10 commandment law, but over the yearly feast days of the ceremonial law. Jewish Christians were judging Gentile Christians for not observing them. Paul simply says, "Don't judge each other. The ceremonial law is no longer binding."
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Christ did not 'break' the Sabbath notwithstanding the truth He WORKED on the Sabbath like He never worked on other days. In fact, He said "I and my Father work until this day (the Sabbath)". And another place, "I FINISH my Father's work" - on the day spoken of, the Sabbath. And another place: "The third day (which was the Sabbath Day) I FINISH (work -- "all the works of God" Hb4:5) speaking of His resurrection from the dead.
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Christ WORKED our salvation-rest for us on and through the Seventh Day Sabbath. Today the Sabbath has no meaning of any significance any more than this.
     
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    3
    Did jesus do away with the Sabbath - or with the Law for that matter? He offered up Himself eventually, nevertheless it was the world that crucified Him; so the world "nailed the Law to the cross", and did away with Divine Law as well as with the Sabbath and its Law. Ah! through Christ and in Him that was! Never loose sight of that! And see the Law go down into perdition as you see Christ go down into perdition for to save sinners. Behold Him until you see Him rise from perdition, and behold the Law of God rise from perdition - from where man sent it - to be glorified and established for ever after the Law of an Endless Life : the Life and Person of the Son of God.
    Then follow Him IN DEATH AND RESURRECTION when you FEAST, your Sabbath Days, says Paul.
     
  20. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gerhard,

    I agree with you that in Christ the Law is abolished...

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    But, the Law was established by God and as such was and remains Holy...

    I do not believe Holy things can go down into perdition... [​IMG]

    There may be a cultural communication problem?

    You may need to elaborate your points a bit more?

    SMM

    To me perdition means lost in hell...

    So, by that definition niether the Law nor Christ can go down into perdition...

    I do believe that Christ 'descended' into Paradise, ie., Abraham's Bossom...

    But, at the time Paradise was still 'below' and a great gulf separated those in 'perdition' from those in Paradise...
     

Share This Page

Loading...