did Jesus EVEN Exist Before the Incarnation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 31, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    if no...

    How can he be 'the same yesterday,today, and forever?"
     
  2. revmwc

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    Yes since by Him was made everything that was made.
     
  3. JesusFan

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    was that by Jesus, or by God the Son/Word Though?
    Not splitting hairs here, but wasn't the Humanity of the Son of God who Jesus was/is?

    that the second person of trinity was the Son/Word before he became jesus in the Incarnation?
     
  4. preachinjesus

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    Jesus' eternal preexistence is a fundamental part of orthodox Christology.

    As the Trinity was in existence prior to the creation, and Jesus is the second Person of the Trinity, His preexistence is along the same lines as God the Father and God the Spirit.

    Notice John's point here:
    1 In the beginning was the Word,
    and the Word was with God,
    and the Word was God.
    2 He was with God in the beginning.
    3 All things were created through Him,
    and apart from Him not one thing was created
    that has been created.

    The Logos doctrine is a particularly important part of Christology. Jesus is the Word/Logos of the Godhead.

    John 17:24 is also another good verse. :)
     
  5. JesusFan

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    Agree that Jesus was/is God in Human Flesh...

    But before his Incarnation, wasn't he JUST God the Son, as jesus was not born as of yet?

    At That moment of His conception, that God the Son forever took on a bodily physical form, and than was called Jesus forever more?
     
  6. revmwc

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    Since Jesus being is the 2nd person of the God head did He have to have a name before he existed? His being is therefore every part of His being is the 2nd person of the Godhead, in His incarnation He became the God man, who existed as God in eternity past, as God-man at incarnation and exist today as God-ressurected man the first fruits, so which part didn't exist prior to incarnation, since the Plan was the Fathers in eternity it would be that Jesus existed in the mind of the Father before the incarnation which means He always existed. Let's not split hairs though.
     
  7. JesusFan

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    This is why I see Him as able to come to earth in OT as "Angel of the Lord" as he took on form like an angel than, as He was a "Spirit" being. but when He came to earth as the man Jesus, was forever "linked" with humanity being now forever God/man!
     
  8. revmwc

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    Understand though when you see the term Angel it means a messenger, He came as the Messenger of God. When He came walking in the Garden after Adam and Eve sinned it says He came as God but they saw Him in what form. as angel, as God or as man?
     
  9. JesusFan

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    maybe a form "like" a man, but did not actually Become a man until the Incarnation?
     
  10. revmwc

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    Made you stop and think now huh?
     
  11. Winman

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    Well, the Lord appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18 and ate food. There is another incredible story here, some say the Lord appeared as the Trinity here.

    Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
    2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

    Whether this was the Lord and two angels is not certain. But there is some reason to believe all were God, as it shows them speaking as one.

    Gen 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    Whether it was the Trinity, or the Lord and two angels, they ate food.

    Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

    Notice again that they spoke as one person.

    Gen 18:9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

    So, this is a very incredible story, many believe the Lord appeared to Abraham as three men here, I tend to agree. But they had real physical bodies and could eat food.
     
  12. revmwc

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    I believe it tot be Christ and two angels. Here is why as they continue on to Sodom and Gomorrah only two of them arrived, Jesus did not enter because of the sin. The angels went in and brought out the 4 which ended as three.


    Genesis 18: 22And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

    33And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

    Genesis 19: 1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

    So see the two with Christ were angels, Christ went his way. The Angels went to Sodom. Verse 19 is the key to this being Angels with Christ as they visit Abraham.
     
  13. JesusFan

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    paul also said that the Rock, Christ, was with the isrealites while they were in the wilderness...

    And think that Christ was the Person of God showing up to speak to Moses in burning Bush!
     
  14. revmwc

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    He went before the Israelites in the day as a cloud and at night as a pillar of fire. I always think of the movei the ten commandments when I think of the pillar of fire. He was also the one who closed the door of the Ark on Noah and His family then brought the flood on mankind.
     
  15. glazer1972

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    Yes, He did exist before the incarnation.
     
  16. David Lamb

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    than...what? And with "than", you surely need a word such as "more" ore "less", or a comparative word such as smaller, larger, heavier. For instance, "My wife is like a beautiful flower than." makes no sense, but "My wife is more like a beautiful flower than a weed." does make sense.

    Please don't think I'm being critical. I just wonder what you meant. :)
     
  17. revmwc

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    I took it as he meant then not than, just a typo.
     
  18. jbh28

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    did Jesus EVEN Exist Before the Incarnation?


    yes
     
  19. David Lamb

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    Duh! Now why didn't I think of that? Sorry for making a mountain out of a molehill.

    (They are not all as daft as me on this side of the pond!)
     
  20. revmwc

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    Now don't take offense to what I say next. But those of us from French descent can pick up on those things better than the english.
     

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