Did Jesus ever kill anyone?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 9, 2006.

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  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    On another thread which is now closed, Brother Bob made the statement that he had never seen Jesus go around killing anyone. I corrected his theological error by stating that since Jesus was God, that he had indeed killed many people. I was then accussed of justifying the murders of Calvin by this. This is not true. I argued that God was fully righteous in all his judgments while Calvin was not as a sinner, thereby showing the difference between God and John Calvin. I was then accussed of calling Jesus a murderer. This is not true as I believe that all of God's judgments are holy and just. A murderer is unholy, sinful, and unjust.

    I then asked several questions which were never answered by Brother Bob. I will repeat these questions here and hope that he will attempt to answer them from a Biblical perspective instead of giving us an opinion poll of his buddies of all different denominations at the local gym:

    1. Do you believe Jesus is, and always has been God?
    2. Did God, in his righteous judgment, ever kill anyone?
    3. Do you have a problem referring to Jesus as God?
    4. Do you think God was justified in killing all those Egyptians and many others?

    I would answer yes to questions #1,2, and 4. I would answer no to question #3. If Brother Bob would like to answer these questions honestly without telling lies about my statements, I would love to hear his honest opinion about this here. I am also open to hearing other peoples' answers to these questions as well.

    Let's try to keep this thread civil.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. npetreley

    npetreley
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    IMO, this is silly. The problem here is that when you say "Jesus" people will think "incarnate". Those people will say no, He never killed anyone, and they would be right in their own minds. But I don't see how you can separate the trinity such that one hand isn't equally responsible for what the other is doing. Could anyone actually claim that Jesus disagrees with the Father regarding the people God has killed? [sarcasm] "Gee, Dad, I wish you hadn't done that. Now that guy on BB is going to blame it on me." Yeah, I can see that. [/sarcasm]



     
  3. Jarthur001

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    I'm sure all will agree that the Three are One. We can see clearly that God the Father in judgement brings death to some. What we then must asked, does God the Father and God the Son have the very same nature and expressions? They are One, yes, but is judgement, wrath and fear expressed in the Father, and love and mercy expressed in the Son?

    Or..do both have the same expression and nature?

    It seems that If we show The Son has wrath and is Judge just as the Father, then we would also have to say they both express wrath, fear, judgement, love and mercy in the same way.



    In Chrsit...James
     
  4. npetreley

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    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


    Lamb. Wrath. End of discussion.
     
  5. LeBuick

    LeBuick
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    1. Yes
    2. No
    3. No
    4. God did not kill them, the bible says they drowned. I'd blame the red sea
     
  6. genesis12

    genesis12
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    I think such discussions are better left 'undiscussed.' I don't think anyone comes away better for engaging in this type exchange. My .02 cents.
     
  7. npetreley

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    Bad red sea! Throw the red sea into the lake of fire since it did not repent.

    How did Ananias and Sapphira die? At whose command did the angels kill those in Egypt who were not passed over? If not even a sparrow falls to the ground apart from God's will, how is it that any man dies outside of God's will?
     
  8. Jarthur001

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    Who held the water back for them to walk on dry land?
    Who let the water go, when they were in the middle of the sea?
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Exodus 12

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. AresMan

    AresMan
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    Bad Red Sea!

    So, God in His sovereignty parted the Red Sea (or was it Moses?!) and then after the Israelites passed over and the Egyptians were in the midst let the sea fall back down...

    Then He shouted, "Come on, Egyptians! Hurry up! Get out of there! Run! You have to understand, I had to save my people, but you were just too close and I didn't want you to get to the other side. Please, hurry back, before... Uh oh! Ooops! My bad! Sorry guys."

    God could have let the Egyptians make it to the other side.
    God could have sovereignly kept the Egyptians from chasing after the Israelites until they had finished crossing the sea, and let it fall back without any fatalities.
    Oh, wait. None of that actually happened.
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    With an intro like this and then say "lets keep it civil" is coming from a mind that did not fully develop.

    I will ask one question.

    1. Was your God dead while Jesus laid in the tomb, Did your God die on the Cross? It was Jesus in the NT and did you ever know of Jesus killing anyone? When God said "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" was He talking about Himself or His Son?

    I really hope several of those who don't get involved in C/A debates will at least answer these questions. Maybe I am in the wrong place.
     
    #11 Brother Bob, Aug 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2006
  12. DeeJay

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    He was of course talking about Himself incarnate. Are you suggesting that Jesus and the Father are not one God, one being?
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    So when He said "Father, I commend my Spirit into thy hands", he was talking to Himself?

    You then do believe your God was dead?

    Oh, I believe in three and these three are one in essence and power.
     
  14. DeeJay

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    Instead of questioning the Trinity, why not answer like this.

    Jesus in his human body when he was on earth did not phycally kill anybody. However Jesus is God and God has killed people. But when I referre to Jesus I am speaking of the physical human body of God.
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    You never answered the question, did Jesus kill anyone?
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Aug 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2006
  16. Jarthur001

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    1) Jesus Body did die...Yes. His Spirit lives forever. If you do not believe in the death of Christ ....I say plainly..you are not saved. Surely you believe this.
     
  17. DeeJay

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    Yes He was talking to Himself, the part of Himself known as the Father.

    The human body that is God the Son died and was reserected.

    Please explain "one in essence and power" I believe they are one God one Being.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    I don't understand too well James as you know it goes over my head so would you please explain it to me. Was your God dead when Jesus was dead?
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    So then, Your God was dead when Jesus was dead or do you believe in 2 Gods?
     
  20. DeeJay

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    The Trinity allows a third choice.

    One omnipresent God who presents in three forms. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are one being we know as God. When the body of Jesus was dead the Father was alive and well. Jesus' spirit (who is God) was alive. Only His body, the body God took was dead.

    Are you saying that Jesus did not die or are you saying Jesus is not God?
     
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